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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    17

    Exclamation Which of These Arguments Should I Focus on to Request Temporary Order

    My question involves a child custody case from the State of Washinton, Whatcom County

    I have a hearing this afternoon on my Motion for Temporary Order re: my 9-yr old son. I am wondering what the range of potential outcomes might be, given that my Proposed Parenting Plan and my ex-wife’s are so far apart, and we are both alleging impropoer behaviour on the part of the other parent.

    Are there any specific arguments or motions I can make to increase the likelihood that they will grant my Motion for Temporary Order, given that our son has not seen either of his parents since early January and we both continue to reside in Whatcom County (while our son was relocated to Las Vegas with his aunt and uncle 3 months ago, against my express written objections)?

    If the Commissioner is unlikely to grant me a Temp Order, then which of the following is most likely instead?
    Is the Commissioner most likely to order us into mediation?
    appoint a Guardian ad litem?
    both?
    something else?

    All the below is in the court file. Can anyone tell me what the Commissioner is likely to order today and what if anything I should focus on to try and persuade them to grant my Motion for Temporary Order?


    BACKGROUND

    My Petition and Proposed Parenting Plan would grant me full custody of my son, with no visitation, decision-making or dispute resolution requirements for my ex-wife, based on her history of:
    • abandonment
      (leaving him with his aunt and uncle in another state for the last three months without seeing him, after five+ years of informally sharing custody with me),
    • emotional abuse and unstable behaviour
      (inappropriate use of conflict, yelling/cursing/screaming in my face in front of him when exchanging him, hitting and scratching herself in the face and bashing her head into things when upset, throwing and smashing household objects, using marijuana and 'magic mushrooms' in front of him, driving recklessly with him in the car (including once intentionally chasing me and rear-ending my car, with our son in her car) and frequently getting into car accidents, providing a poor moral example by conducting her "dating" life in view of our son, going out at night using inappropriate people to watch him, threatening to deny me access based purely on personal animus, giving little-to-no academic support),
    • threatening/hostile behaviour towards me including obscenity-laden and threatening voicemails and text messages,
    • and one instance of physical abuse towards our son
      (in October my son told me she slammed his head into a wall and begged me not to say anything to her, like he was afraid of her punishing him for telling me)

    The above are clearly described in my filings, with specific examples.


    Her Response:
    • a) denies that the Court has jurisdiction
      (claiming that because she physically relocated the child to NV and left him there 3 months ago, and declares that she intends to move there at some unspecified point in the future (which I do not believe), that jurisdiction should be there, despite the fact that she and I have both lived in Whatcom County continuously since 2002, our son was born here and has never lived anywhere else until they took him out of state during January),
      b) requests that the court deny my petition,
      but does not request that the court enter her Proposed Parenting Plan instead,
      c) requests a restraining/protection order alleging "pasts acts of domestic violence and present fear of what he will do to me"
      (pure fabrication and no specific incidents alleged, and in fact SHE has a history of violence and property damage against ME)


    She also files a Proposed Residential Schedule
    (again, the Request for Relief section of the Response only asks the court to deny my Petition, the "court should enter respondent's proposed parenting plan" is left unchecked) with:
    • the boxes alleging domestic violence, neglect and abusive use of conflict all checked,
    • school schedule saying son should reside with my ex-wife "or her designee" except for one month during summer break, and three day weekends if I pay for transportation and give 90 days notice, with no obligation for mother to pay for transportation, and
    • authorizing her to move to Las Vegas.


    Her Declaration alleges that:
    • I have had "inconsistent contact" and "not provided support" for most of my son's life
      (not true, we lived together as a family until he was almost five years old and have had regular weekly overnight visits in the five years since),
    • again alleges that she was the victim of domestic violence "throughout our relationship
      (100% false, and no specific allegations or evidence provided).

    She also files reports by the school in Las Vegas diagnosing our son as likely to have autism and Asperger’s, and says that the school in Las Vegas has better programs for that than the ones here, and argues that as a reason to keep our son in Las Vegas instead of returning him here where he has lived his entire life
    (I suspect the symptoms they based their diagnosis on may in fact largely be the result of my ex-wife's erratic and mentally unstable conduct).

    All of her allegations are vague and without specific examples.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Which of These Arguments Should I Focus on to Request Temporary Order

    Its highly unlikely that this part would happen:


    My Petition and Proposed Parenting Plan would grant me full custody of my son, with no visitation, decision-making or dispute resolution requirements for my ex-wife, based on her history of:
    Even the very worst of parents get some form of visitation, even if its supervised. As to the rest, I would be hesitant to form an opinion on a case with so many variables.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    403

    Default Re: Which of These Arguments Should I Focus on to Request Temporary Order

    Quote Quoting dos-huevos
    View Post
    My question involves a child custody case from the State of Washinton, Whatcom County

    I have a hearing this afternoon on my Motion for Temporary Order re: my 9-yr old son.
    Well, I guess by this point, you've already been to court. I get nervous before hearings too, and constantly ask my lawyer how the judge is likely to rule. What ended up happening?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    17

    Angry Re: Which of These Arguments Should I Focus on to Request Temporary Order

    My ex-wife is challenging jurisdiction, saying that she is moving to Las Vegas and only remained here to wait until her Section 8 voucher gets transferred. She didn't submit any evidence that she has applied to transfer the voucher, and I think she's making it up. The commissioner was generally dismissive and snippy to me, I think she thinks my allegations are lies (even though I filed a third-party witness Declaration from one of my ex-wife's neighbours which corroborates a lot of them) because I never called CPS or filed a parenting plan before.

    Basically the commissioner ended up saying that until jurisdiction is resolved, the only order she's willing to enter is one scheduling phone/Skype calls with my kid. I'm going to need to find an attorney to help me resolve the jurisdiction stuff.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Somewhere near Canada
    Posts
    35,894

    Default Re: Which of These Arguments Should I Focus on to Request Temporary Order

    I think you sunk yourself in front of that commissioner. They see this every single day - a parent making allegations against the other parent, yet having no evidence at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, WA is very move-away friendly. Even IF WA retains jurisdiction (and believe me, that issue won't be over in a few weeks - it's going to take months, by which point Mom could easily argue that since kiddo has been in NV all this time it would be unfair to uproot him), Mom has an excellent chance of being allowed to move with him.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    17

    Angry Getting Custody After a Divorce With False Representation of No Children

    Cross-posted to both Divorce and Custody sections in hopes that someone with the right expertise will see it, hope that's ok...

    My question involves a marriage in the state of Washington, with divorce filed in Clark County, Nevada.

    *Phew*, this is a complicated one, I am trying to find an attorney to help me figure it out, but I just wanted to see if anyone here can lend any insight before I start having to borrow money. :/

    Jun 2002:
    My ex-wife and I were married in Whatcom County, WA
    Sep 2003:
    Our son was born. (There is no question of paternity, I'm on the birth certificate, and have a WA child support administrative order and ex-wife isn't challenging paternity.)
    Apr 2005:
    We split up and (after living together in Whatcom County the whole time) my ex went to stay with her sister in Las Vegas for six weeks in order to qualify for a quick "no-fault" divorce. Her mom drafted the divorce papers and mailed them to me in Whatcom County. In the custody/family plan section of the papers, it said that there were zero children in the marriage, even though our son was one year old at the time. Ex-mom-in-law convinced me that since ex-wife and son were moving right back to WA, it would just be easier to do it that way to get the divorce over with and we would do the parenting plan here in WA. I was 22 at the time, and naive, and without the benefit of counsel, and they put pressure on me over the phone, and I just signed the papers they sent me and mailed them back without it really occurring to me that we were committing perjury/fraud.
    2005–2012:
    Ex-wife and I continued to live in Whatcom County, and co-parented informally, without ever filing a parenting plan, with ex-wife having primary residence and me usually having my son overnight two/three nights a week. I asked her to negotiate a parenting plan multiple times, and she kept leading me on to believe that she would, and then backing out at the last minute.
    Dec/Jan 2013:
    Ex-wife basically had a mental breakdown, and her family took my son and her other two younger kids (no involved fathers) to Las Vegas for their safety and well-being, without giving me the chance to take my (now 9-year old) son. Ex-wife continues to reside in Whatcom County.
    Feb 2013:
    In order to try and get my son back in Whatcom County, I filed a Summons/Petition/Proposed Parenting Plan, pro se, in Whatcom County Superior Court, since this is where both parents currently reside, and where our son resided his entire life until this January.
    Ex-wife defaulted on the 20-day Response deadline, but filed a Notice of Appearance pro se, and then finally lawyered up and filed her Response (two weeks late but just in time to stop my Motion for Default). She alleges that she is planning to move to Las Vegas and is merely waiting for her Section 8 housing voucher to be transferred to NV (she submitted no proof that she has applied to transfer, but the Commissioner is taking her word for it; I don't know whether she really plans to move or not, but if so, she only decided to do so last week right before she filed her Response, based on verbal conversations I had with her before she finally appeared and filed)
    Neither my wife or I filed the Final Order from the 2005 NV divorce, but the Commissioner wants to see it to see if NV reserved jurisdiction over family plan etc. She doesn't know yet that it says there were no children, and I have NO IDEA what the fraudulent divorce filing is going to do to the case here once it gets filed. (I don't imagine it'll make much difference that my ex-wife/mom-in-law drafted and filed it: I signed it too, so I'm just as guilty of perjury/fraud as they are.)

    The questions that I'm fervently hoping someone can shed some light on are:

    a) What does the fraudulent divorce filing mean for jurisdiction as it stands now?

    b) If I file in Clark County, NV to “set aside” the divorce as fraudulent, does that mean my ex and I are still legally married? Can I then file for dissolution in Whatcom County? Would this clear up any question of NV having jurisdiction? Would either/both of us likely be charged with perjury/fraud in NV?

    c) Or would "setting aside" the NV divorce simply require us to amend/correct the custody/family plan portion of the NV divorce filing and make a family plan in that jurisdiction?

    I realize this is a bit of a doozy, and every attorney I talk to here just gets big ol’ dollar signs in their eyes thinking about how complicated it is, so I'm really really hoping someone can just help me mentally unravel it a little bit.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Somewhere near Canada
    Posts
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    Default Re: Fraudulent Divorce Filed Years Ago in Nv Complicating Custody Jurisdiction in Wa

    Oh dude.

    You never mentioned this in earlier posts, did you?

    a) It generally means NV retains jurisdiction. Mom lawyered up and got smart about it, didn't she?

    b) If it's fraudulent, you're both guilty. I can't see the court overturning the divorce based on what will be claimed as a simple error.

    c) More than likely, yes. I see that as being the most likely outcome.

    Please don't take this the wrong way - but you're in WAY over your head here. Given this issue and the fact you pretty much sunk yourself in court yesterday the best you can do is sell whatever it takes to get an attorney.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Which of These Arguments Should I Focus on to Request Temporary Order

    I'm worried I may have too.

    The frustrating thing is, my declarations gave specific examples and dates of her misconduct, and like I said, I also filed a Witness Declaration from someone I had never even met before who was my ex-wife's neighbour and testified that she heard constant screaming/yelling/cursing/things being thrown around from my ex's house, all the way into her house two doors down, and saw the kids, including toddler, left unsupervised, playing in the road etc, baby left screaming in the car in the driveway, porch piled up with garbage and furniture year-round, etc. Allegations in ex-wife's response were all completely vague, no specific incidents or dates mentioned, no third-party corroboration.

    Also my ex-wife's proposed residential schedule sneaks in that the kids can stay with her "or her designees" in Las Vegas, which furthers my belief that she is not really planning to move there, or wants to be free to move away and leave the kids with her sister whenever she wants.

    How does my biological parenthood and history of de facto shared custody give me no rights whatsoever? >

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Somewhere near Canada
    Posts
    35,894

    Default Re: Jurisdiction in Wa Complicated by Fraudulent Divorce Filing in Nv

    Dad, please keep it together in one thread. It makes it easier on everyone

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Somewhere near Canada
    Posts
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    Default Re: Which of These Arguments Should I Focus on to Request Temporary Order

    Quote Quoting dos-huevos
    View Post
    My question involves a child custody case from the State of Washinton, Whatcom County

    I have a hearing this afternoon on my Motion for Temporary Order re: my 9-yr old son. I am wondering what the range of potential outcomes might be, given that my Proposed Parenting Plan and my ex-wife’s are so far apart, and we are both alleging impropoer behaviour on the part of the other parent.

    Are there any specific arguments or motions I can make to increase the likelihood that they will grant my Motion for Temporary Order, given that our son has not seen either of his parents since early January and we both continue to reside in Whatcom County (while our son was relocated to Las Vegas with his aunt and uncle 3 months ago, against my express written objections)?
    Okay - we need to make a point here that there WAS a divorce in NV, and even though custody was not decided nor was the child mentioned, there's still a decent chance that WA will decline jurisdiction and the whole thing will remain in NV.


    If the Commissioner is unlikely to grant me a Temp Order, then which of the following is most likely instead?
    Is the Commissioner most likely to order us into mediation?
    appoint a Guardian ad litem?
    both?
    something else?
    Now that you've had court, was a GAL requested?


    All the below is in the court file. Can anyone tell me what the Commissioner is likely to order today and what if anything I should focus on to try and persuade them to grant my Motion for Temporary Order?


    BACKGROUND

    My Petition and Proposed Parenting Plan would grant me full custody of my son, with no visitation, decision-making or dispute resolution requirements for my ex-wife, based on her history of:
    • abandonment
      (leaving him with his aunt and uncle in another state for the last three months without seeing him, after five+ years of informally sharing custody with me),
    BIG mistake. She hasn't abandoned the child, legally. And what you're requesting is completely unreasonable.

    emotional abuse and unstable behaviour

    (inappropriate use of conflict, yelling/cursing/screaming in my face in front of him when exchanging him, hitting and scratching herself in the face and bashing her head into things when upset, throwing and smashing household objects, using marijuana and 'magic mushrooms' in front of him, driving recklessly with him in the car (including once intentionally chasing me and rear-ending my car, with our son in her car) and frequently getting into car accidents, providing a poor moral example by conducting her "dating" life in view of our son, going out at night using inappropriate people to watch him, threatening to deny me access based purely on personal animus, giving little-to-no academic support)
    ,
    Was any of this documented by police reports (the criminal stuff).

    Mom having boyfriends around isn't going to matter at all.



    • threatening/hostile behaviour towards me including obscenity-laden and threatening voicemails and text messages,
    • Proof?

    and one instance of physical abuse towards our son
    (in October my son told me she slammed his head into a wall and begged me not to say anything to her, like he was afraid of her punishing him for telling me)


    No proven abuse.

    The above are clearly described in my filings, with specific examples.


    Her Response:
    • a) denies that the Court has jurisdiction
    • She has a valid point.

      (claiming that because she physically relocated the child to NV and left him there 3 months ago, and declares that she intends to move there at some unspecified point in the future (which I do not believe), that jurisdiction should be there, despite the fact that she and I have both lived in Whatcom County continuously since 2002, our son was born here and has never lived anywhere else until they took him out of state during January),
      b) requests that the court deny my petition,
      but does not request that the court enter her Proposed Parenting Plan instead,
      c) requests a restraining/protection order alleging "pasts acts of domestic violence and present fear of what he will do to me"
      (pure fabrication and no specific incidents alleged, and in fact SHE has a history of violence and property damage against ME)

    She also files a Proposed Residential Schedule
    (again, the Request for Relief section of the Response only asks the court to deny my Petition, the "court should enter respondent's proposed parenting plan" is left unchecked) with:
    • the boxes alleging domestic violence, neglect and abusive use of conflict all checked,
    • school schedule saying son should reside with my ex-wife "or her designee" except for one month during summer break, and three day weekends if I pay for transportation and give 90 days notice, with no obligation for mother to pay for transportation, and
    • authorizing her to move to Las Vegas.


    Her Declaration alleges that:
    • I have had "inconsistent contact" and "not provided support" for most of my son's life
      (not true, we lived together as a family until he was almost five years old and have had regular weekly overnight visits in the five years since),
    • again alleges that she was the victim of domestic violence "throughout our relationship
      (100% false, and no specific allegations or evidence provided).

    She also files reports by the school in Las Vegas diagnosing our son as likely to have autism and Asperger’s, and says that the school in Las Vegas has better programs for that than the ones here, and argues that as a reason to keep our son in Las Vegas instead of returning him here where he has lived his entire life
    (I suspect the symptoms they based their diagnosis on may in fact largely be the result of my ex-wife's erratic and mentally unstable conduct).

    All of her allegations are vague and without specific examples.

    But your allegations are just that - allegations.

    Oh, Dad. I don't even know where to begin.

    The jurisdiction issue alone is enough for you to NEED an attorney.

    But it gets worse - because as presented here, the commissioner sees two parents. One who submitted what is, honestly, a completely unreasonable parenting plan which does nothing at all to foster the relationship between the child and his other parent.

    And the other parent who has, apparently, submitted a long-distance parenting plan while seeming to be concerned (regarding the child's learning disabilities) about the child's welfare above all else and all the time not deliberately trying to hinder the other parent's relationship.

    Dad, you have rights - but you've really messed this up. :/

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