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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Default Is Being Fired for Insubordination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: Texas

    A bit of back story I accepted a position a 4 months ago that involved signing a training agreement in which I agreed to pay back the amount of training if I voluntary left the company. At the time as well I knew the position involved some travel but I was told multiple times that it would not exceed one travel engagement for every 2 months and I made it clear with the company before I signed that this is the maximum amount that I would be able to do so if there is a issue please find someone else. They chose to offer me the promotion anyways so I thought they were clear and understood my personal requirements and that they would match what the job required.

    From the start the travel was multiple times (2 or 3 times a month) in some months and only once in others but still not the amount of travel that was disclosed to me verbally( once every 2 months) after becoming concerned that this would be a trend I decided to have a talk with my boss because while I was in New York they asked me to travel to Houston every other week and that was not what we had agreed on before I took the position. I was hoping they would be willing to be accommodating due to my excellent work history and my willingness to travel extensively before this point. Instead I was terminated for insubordination for refusing to travel to Houston for this job. I understand that I refused a direct order but that was because I was grossly mislead about the type of travel this job required. I did make it clear to them that I did not want to quit I just wanted to work past this issue because the job was more than acceptable the way it was presented to me, it is not my fault that the company is not keeping the verbal agreement a reality.

    Now to finally get to my question since the agreement said voluntary leave I am thinking I am off the hook since I was fired and told to give back all equipment and escorted out of the building. Is this correct? Or is insubordination some type of voluntary leave? Also once again I never said I wanted to leave and my goal was to find a compromise in the situation and move forward.

    Sorry for the long message but I wanted to be as detailed as possible so that those responding would understand the scenario.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    24,521

    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    Are you asking for unemployment purposes?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    4

    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    No my only concern is about having to repay the the amount for training. The contract says if I leave voluntary I would owe the amount back to the company but since I was told to leave and forced to return all equipment it sounds like I was fired. However I would like a second option from someone who knows this type of stuff a bit more than myself.

  4. #4
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    What is the exact language of the contract?

    Would your employer be able to make the case that your insubordination was a deliberate effort to get fired in order to avoid repaying the training cost (i.e., constructive resignation)?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    1,360

    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    You should file for unemployment benefits.

    As it stands now, your employer could withhold the training money from your final paycheck, right or wrong, and you'd be the one that had to try to get it back. If they've already paid you, then they've lost leverage. You can ignore any requests to pay them until they take legal action, get a judgment against you, and even then you can still wait until they try to enforce the judgment with collection efforts. Just because they try, doesn't mean they'll succeed.

    How much money is involved?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    4

    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    @Mr Knowitall
    I doubt that they would be able to I've always had excellent performance and I never even brought up the training agreement during the discussion. I also never said I wanted to be fired just that I wanted to talk and find a solution to the issue. Not sure if that answers your question or not.

    As far as what the agreement says it basically says that if I voluntary leave before 2 years(august 2014) I must pay the amount back, the amount due is on a sliding scale and it says if i leave they are allowed to take it out of my check and that I would repay any amount that my check did not cover

    @chyvan
    I figured that I would not be able to collect due to me being fired for insorbdination isn't that a form of misconduct which would disqualify me? The amount is close to 3000. Also as far as letting them try to get the amount through court won't that hurt me more in the long run? I am unsure of the process they would have to go through in order to sue me for the amount.

    Also if they are unwilling to pay me would it be possible to get the Texas workforce commission involved?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    Insubordination isn't always misconduct. An example would if the employer asked the accounting supervisor to start cleaning the toilets in her down time. If she told the employer to pound sand, and was fired, that wouldn't necessarily be misconduct because I doubt that cleaning toilets is part of any accounting supervisor's condition of hire.

    Your situation is similar. You told the employer what you were willing to do, and they pushed the envelope. When you complained, you were fired. Not so clear cut as to whether it is misconduct or not.

    However, with an unemployment claim, the reason you were let go is determined. If you get an adverse decision that you were "discharged for misconduct" that would go a long way to support your postion that it wasn't "voluntary." You might also get a decision that you were "discharged for something other than misconduct," and then you'll get UI benefits, and still be able to support your position.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    as other posters have suggested, file for unemployment, it will force them to go on record as having fired you and you may well win the unemployment hearing too.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    I can see the training agreement going either way.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    4

    Default Re: Is Being Fired for Insorbdination a Form of Voluntary Leave

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    I can see the training agreement going either way.
    Any additional input as to why? This is my main concern so I would like to get as many different experts viewpoints as possible to help me come up with my own conclusion.

    As far as what everyone else has said I will go down the route of filing for unemployment and see what happens from there. Judging by the tone of some of the posts even if they wanted to get the money due to the training agreement it sounds like would be a long battle for them assuming that I left voluntary.

    In the event that I am able to get unemployment what would be the next recourse for me to get any money owed to me that they held because of the training agreement. According to those here if I am able to get unemployment that would prove that I did not leave by my choice correct? Would the next step be presenting this information to the Texas Workforce Commission? Or would it be better to get a lawyer involved from that point??(I have a family friend who would go to bat for me so there would be little cost for his time). Of course I would perfer to not use his services and his time if possible but if that is the road that needs to be traveled.

    Thanks in advance everyone, the information here has helped me out tremendously.


    I understand nothing said here would replace

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