Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
  1. #1

    Default Stop Sign Violation, VC 22450(A)

    Iím a relative newbie to Expert Law and I have posted before regarding using a speed trap defense. Now my elderly mom needs help for an alleged stop sign violation, CVC22450(a). She allegedly stopped past the limit line at a stop sign where the front of her car was allegedly in the middle of the crosswalk (after the stop sign limit line) when she stopped. There were no pedestrians in the crosswalk or in the vicinity and she was only cited with CVC22450(a). My mom has posted bail and has a speedy trial date set for January 2nd.

    Everything I have read in Expert Law forums and elsewhere has told me that if the cop were to show at trial and the judge agrees with the cop saying my mom stopped past the limit line and the front of her car stopped in the middle of the crosswalk, my mom will lose. However, the owner of HELP! I got a ticket! Website, Geo. has emphatically told me that even if my mom did stop with the front of her car in the crosswalk, she did not violate the law, as it is written. This is because dictionaries define the word ďatĒ as in, on or near. Therefore, even if my mom did stop past the limit line and the front of car was stopped in the middle of the crosswalk, my mom technically stopped at the stop sign, and she definitely did not enter the intersection. I of course have learned to take some of Geo.ís information with a grain of salt. If there is any expert in this forum who thinks my mom has a significantly better chance than a snowball in hell of fighting and beating her ticket by arguing that she stopped at the stop sign even if her car was entered into the crosswalk you can let me know, but I donít think there is. I have read CVC22450(a) numerous times, so no one has to repost it for me unless referencing in will somehow be of any use for me to help my mom fight her ticket.

    My momís alleged infraction occurred on San Marin Drive at San Carlos Way in Novato while she was heading southwest on San Marin Drive. The cop was staked out on San Carlos Way at the intersection of San Marin Drive at the opposite side of the divided road from where my mom was driving. I have a Google Maps street view of the location. Coincidentally, the Street View shows an SUV in the same stopped position that the cop alleges my mom was stopped (front of car entered into middle of crosswalk). Here is the link: http://goo.gl/maps/2Deob

    The cop wrote on the ticket that it was wet, rainy. My mom has a clear memory of it being fairly dry and having barely started sprinkling. I donít know if my mom needs to be too upset about the cop exaggerating the weather conditions on the ticket, since I donít know that this will be of any help in fighting her ticket. If anyone thinks that it could be of help to her in fighting the ticket, please let me know. I also understand that poor weather conditions during an alleged violation can actually work in a defendantís favor because the copís visibility will not be as good to view an alleged infraction.
    The cop also got the number incorrect on my momís street address when he wrote the ticket. This may be the reason why it took 16 days for her to get her courtesy notice, when it often normally only takes 7 days for someone to receive their courtesy notice. I know this will also likely be viewed as insignificant by a judge though. The cop also wrote his name illegibly on the ticket, but we were able to get his name through his serial number.

    In the sixty years my mom has been driving she has only gotten two traffic tickets before this one and she is eligible for traffic school.
    I want to discuss the encounter my mom had with the cop during the traffic stop and his unprofessionalism, since drawing attention to the copís unprofessionalism and state of mind I believe has a slightly better chance of having her ticket dismissed by a judge, if the cop were to show, than if my mom were to argue she made a legal stop.

    My mom has a heart condition, a number health issues and has lived with a lot of pain over the last three years. She was pulled over by the cop at a rather vulnerable time for her. She was on her way to the hospital to have blood tests done at the time. After the cop pulled her over, he of course asked her the incriminating question ďDo you know why you were pulled over?Ē My mom may have answered in a way to incriminate herself, but I donít want to state exactly what she may have said. After my mom answered the cop, he abruptly went to his patrol car without telling her that he would be writing her a ticket. When he came back to my momís car after a few minutes and gave her the ticket, my mom was in tears. My mom said to him ďI canít afford the ticket.Ē The cop then abruptly said ďToo bad.Ē My mom told me the cop was generally rude, abrupt and strange. Before the cop left, in a desperate attempt to diffuse the situation, my mom unfortunately jokingly said to the officer ďIím on my way to have blood tests at the hospital, I hope I donít have a heart attack on my way there.Ē The cop then raised his voice while angrily replying to her ďHow dare you! How dare you! Donít you put that on me! Donít you put that on me! Iím here to protect the public from flagrant violators of the law!Ē My mom immediately regretted her comment about hoping she would not have a heart attack and wished to apologize to the cop, but the cop immediately left to his patrol car and my mom had to get to her appointment at the hospital. After my momís appointment, she went to see if the cop was still at his stake out position so she could apologize to him but he had left.

    My mom certainly has never flagrantly violated the law. If she has ever stopped slightly over a limit line at a stop sign in the past it is only because she was momentarily distracted. My mom is disturbed by the fact that people routinely drive through stop signs without stopping and donít get pulled over but she allegedly stopped past the limit line, certainly did not enter the intersection, endangered no one and she got an expensive ticket, along with anger and rudeness from a cop who alluded to her being a ďflagrant violator.Ē I have told her this is not fair but that is how it is.

    At some point during my momís encounter with the cop, he told her ďI held an old ladyís hand that was dying today.Ē My mom would have certainly been very sympathetic to the officer if my mom knew the officer and it were any other situation other than my mom being cited, but the copís comment about him holding an old ladyís hand that was dying seems inappropriate when he is issuing a citation. It also indicates that he was in a bad state of mind where he was not competent to be issuing a traffic ticket. He also said to my mom ďMaybe Iíll see you in court.Ē

    Does anyone think the copís lack of professionalism and his rudeness towards my mom during the traffic stop can help with my mom fighting the ticket, specifically arguing that the cop was not in a state of mind to be competent to issue a traffic ticket, or would this also be a long shot?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation: VC 22450(a)

    That's a nice novel. Please when you go to court, leave out the drama. The cops behavior is IMMATERIAL to the offense at hand. If you believe he stepped over the line, you can make a complaint to his department, but that is an INDEPENDENT action to the speeding ticket.

    Your alleged defense has TWO major holes in it. The biggest is that this intersection has a limit line before the crosswalk. Therefore, the crosswalk and the text of 22450 pertaining it doesn't even apply. It says to stop "at the limit line." You might get some sympathy of the judge if the bumper hangs over the limit line but the wheels were before or touching the line. However, if you're stopped the way the car in that picture shows, nobody is going to buy straddling the line to be "at" the line.

    Second, the statute doesn't say "at the crosswalk." This one is WAY more specific. It says "otherwise before entering the crosswalk."
    Even without a limit line, having your bumper (let alone the wheels) in the crosswalk will be in violation.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation: VC 22450(a)

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    If anyone thinks that it could be of help to her in fighting the ticket, please let me know.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    I also understand that poor weather conditions during an alleged violation can actually work in a defendant’s favor because the cop’s visibility will not be as good to view an alleged infraction.
    Move along, nothing to see here.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    The cop also got the number incorrect on my mom’s street address when he wrote the ticket. This may be the reason why it took 16 days for her to get her courtesy notice, when it often normally only takes 7 days for someone to receive their courtesy notice. I know this will also likely be viewed as insignificant by a judge though. The cop also wrote his name illegibly on the ticket, but we were able to get his name through his serial number.
    Nothing to see here, move along.


    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    In the sixty years my mom has been driving she has only gotten two traffic tickets before this one and she is eligible for traffic school.
    Then perhaps she should take it.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    I want to discuss the encounter my mom had with the cop during the traffic stop and his unprofessionalism, since drawing attention to the cop’s unprofessionalism and state of mind I believe has a slightly better chance of having her ticket dismissed by a judge, if the cop were to show, than if my mom were to argue she made a legal stop.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    After my mom answered the cop, he abruptly went to his patrol car without telling her that he would be writing her a ticket.
    And? He doesn't have to.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    When he came back to my mom’s car after a few minutes and gave her the ticket, my mom was in tears. My mom said to him “I can’t afford the ticket.” The cop then abruptly said “Too bad.” My mom told me the cop was generally rude, abrupt and strange.
    And? Strange? Really? Nothing to see here, move along. She tried the "cry her way out of a ticket" trick and it didn't work.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    Before the cop left, in a desperate attempt to diffuse the situation, my mom unfortunately jokingly said to the officer “I’m on my way to have blood tests at the hospital, I hope I don’t have a heart attack on my way there.” The cop then raised his voice while angrily replying to her “How dare you! How dare you! Don’t you put that on me! Don’t you put that on me! I’m here to protect the public from flagrant violators of the law!”
    And? Your mom made a piss poor joke and the cop called her on it. Nobody would want that kinda crap put on them.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    My mom certainly has never flagrantly violated the law.
    2 prior citations say otherwise.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    If she has ever stopped slightly over a limit line at a stop sign in the past it is only because she was momentarily distracted.
    Well then, she needs to be paying more attention. Just because you don't get caught doesn't mean you haven't broken the law.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    My mom is disturbed by the fact that people routinely drive through stop signs without stopping and don’t get pulled over but she allegedly stopped past the limit line, certainly did not enter the intersection, endangered no one and she got an expensive ticket,
    I'm sure if an officer were around, they would stop those other stop sign violators. Her number came up in the ticket lottery. Deal with it. Endangering someone is NOT an element of the offense.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    At some point during my mom’s encounter with the cop, he told her “I held an old lady’s hand that was dying today.”
    Without the context, it is a comment that could have many meanings. None of them bad. Perhaps it was during the disagreement over your mom's stupid joke.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    but the cop’s comment about him holding an old lady’s hand that was dying seems inappropriate when he is issuing a citation.
    Nothing to see here, move along.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    It also indicates that he was in a bad state of mind where he was not competent to be issuing a traffic ticket. He also said to my mom “Maybe I’ll see you in court.”
    Nothing to see here, move along.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    Does anyone think the cop’s lack of professionalism and his rudeness towards my mom during the traffic stop can help with my mom fighting the ticket, specifically arguing that the cop was not in a state of mind to be competent to issue a traffic ticket, or would this also be a long shot?

    It ain't a long shot, it's a no shot.

    You mom broke the law, time to pay the piper. If she could afford the bail to take it to trial, she can afford the ticket. I would also point out that you are only getting mom's side of the story. The officer's, which may be recorded, could be quite different.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation, VC 22450(A)

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    Everything I have read in Expert Law forums and elsewhere has told me that if the cop were to show at trial and the judge agrees with the cop saying my mom stopped past the limit line and the front of her car stopped in the middle of the crosswalk, my mom will lose. However, the owner of HELP! I got a ticket! Website, Geo. has emphatically told me that even if my mom did stop with the front of her car in the crosswalk, she did not violate the law, as it is written. This is because dictionaries define the word “at” as in, on or near. Therefore, even if my mom did stop past the limit line and the front of car was stopped in the middle of the crosswalk, my mom technically stopped at the stop sign, and she definitely did not enter the intersection. I of course have learned to take some of Geo.’s information with a grain of salt. If there is any expert in this forum who thinks my mom has a significantly better chance than a snowball in hell of fighting and beating her ticket by arguing that she stopped at the stop sign even if her car was entered into the crosswalk you can let me know, but I don’t think there is. I have read CVC22450(a) numerous times, so no one has to repost it for me unless referencing in will somehow be of any use for me to help my mom fight her ticket.
    This isn't the first time that Geo has proven that he should really leave interpretations of the law to others who might have a bit of a grasp of how to interpret it. The reason his analogy is beyond incorrect, is the fact that the law requires a driver to stop at the limit line has nothing to do with where the crosswalk is. So your Mom could have stopped over the limit line if she has chosen to as long as she did not enter the crosswalk. It states that in the same code section that Geo is misinterpreting...

    22450.

    (a) The driver of any vehicle approaching a stop sign at the entrance to, or within, an intersection shall stop at a limit line, if marked, otherwise before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection.
    If there is no limit line or crosswalk, the driver shall stop at the entrance to the intersecting roadway.

    So how in God's name could anyone read that code section and say its OK to stop in the middle of the crosswalk and still be in compliance of the law? How could you buy into such a flimsy and half-assed argument? Are people seriously that desperate that they will cling to a senseless meaningless argument that makes no sense whatsoever?

    Your argument, via Geo McCalip is laughable! Actually, on second thought, it is sad and mind boggling that anyone could stick to such an incorrect argument. Feel free to tell him I said so... Your Mom should opt for traffic school now before she loses her trial and gets rejected by the judge!

    For what its worth, common sense would dictate that the requirement to stop before you enter the crosswalk is to protect any pedestrians who might be crossing inside that crosswalk. And so if a driver is allowed to stop halfway over and into the crosswalk, there go any pedestrians who might have thought they were safe crossing the roadway. So you see, more often it really doesn't take much to make an attempt to understand the law or its intent.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    The cop also got the number incorrect on my mom’s street address when he wrote the ticket. This may be the reason why it took 16 days for her to get her courtesy notice, when it often normally only takes 7 days for someone to receive their courtesy notice.
    Where do you get that idea about "7 days" from?

    It takes a minimum of TWENTY ONE DAYS from the date the citation is issued to receive a courtesy notice. And so your Mom received hers in record time. But even if she didn't, it is meaningless simply because the courtesy notice has nothing to do with the validity of the citation and even if she did not receive one, it would still be just as valid a citation as any!

    I could go though each and every one of your paragraphs and refute each and every one simply to show that you, your Mom and all attributed excuses are meaningless as a defense. But I do see that someone has done so in a much better form than I could ever do!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting free9man
    View Post
    Nothing to see here, move along.
    Move along, nothing to see here.
    Nothing to see here, move along.
    Nothing to see here, move along.
    Nothing to see here, move along.
    Nothing to see here, move along.
    Nothing to see here, move along.
    OMG, people though I was crying! My stomach hurts!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    832

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation, VC 22450(A)

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    At some point during my mom’s encounter with the cop, he told her “I held an old lady’s hand that was dying today.” My mom would have certainly been very sympathetic to the officer if my mom knew the officer and it were any other situation other than my mom being cited, but the cop’s comment about him holding an old lady’s hand that was dying seems inappropriate when he is issuing a citation. It also indicates that he was in a bad state of mind where he was not competent to be issuing a traffic ticket. He also said to my mom “Maybe I’ll see you in court.”
    Maybe I'm missing something...were you in your mom's car when she was stopped? I don't think I read anywhere that you were there. If so, you have to understand the comment the cop allegedly made, "I held an old lady’s hand that was dying today.” could have been in response to an alleged snooty comment from your mother. Just saying. You have to understand that while she may be your loving mother, she could have let's say, inflated, intentionally or unintentionally parts of the story.

    Quote Quoting Alleged Speeder
    View Post
    The cop wrote on the ticket that it was wet, rainy. My mom has a clear memory of it being fairly dry and having barely started sprinkling.
    Well, water falling out of the sky is rain. Water drizziling out of the sky is rain. A monsoon is rain. If I put my dry hand down on the pavement and lift up a wet hand from a damp road, is my hand not still wet?

    Quote Quoting Flyingron
    The cops behavior is IMMATERIAL to the offense at hand. If you believe he stepped over the line, you can make a complaint to his department, but that is an INDEPENDENT action to the speeding ticket.
    While you speak the truth in the fact the cops actions independent to the violation, most departments will not investigate 3rd party complaints, which i allege he is just that, a 3rd party.

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    It takes a minimum of TWENTY ONE DAYS from the date the citation is issued to receive a courtesy notice. And so your Mom received hers in record time. But even if she didn't, it is meaningless simply because the courtesy notice has nothing to do with the validity of the citation and even if she did not receive one, it would still be just as valid a citation as any!
    I tell people a courtesy notice is just that, a courtesy. It's not necessary.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation, VC 22450(A)

    Quote Quoting sniper
    View Post
    I tell people a courtesy notice is just that, a courtesy. It's not necessary.
    Correct, there is no legal requirement that one be sent out!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation, VC 22450(A)

    It has been seven weeks since I last posted regarding my mom’s ticket. I’m Sorry for taking so long to reply to posts here. I’ve found it to be difficult to find the time to reply and do follow-up posts. Thanks to all of you who have posted your thoughts and opinions and telling it as you see it. I would rather have people issue their honest opinions and tell it just as they see it than to receive any sympathy or be given hope (falsely) that is based on information that is incorrect.

    That's a nice novel. Please when you go to court, leave out the drama. The cops behavior is IMMATERIAL to the offense at hand. If you believe he stepped over the line, you can make a complaint to his department, but that is an INDEPENDENT action to the speeding ticket.
    I have encouraged my mom to make a complaint to the department if she feels the cop did step over the line. You stated that this is an independent action from fighting her speeding ticket but I know you meant her stop sign violation ticket. I agree with you that her decision to make a complaint to the police department is an independent action to her fighting the ticket. I think you have good advice, as I doubt there are many judges who are interested in drama, as you’ve indicated. Generally, judges only care about the legal facts of the case, the cop’s account of what happened, the defendant’s account of what happened and any reasonable doubt that the defendant may cast.

    Your alleged defense has TWO major holes in it. The biggest is that this intersection has a limit line before the crosswalk. Therefore, the crosswalk and the text of 22450 pertaining it doesn't even apply. It says to stop "at the limit line." You might get some sympathy of the judge if the bumper hangs over the limit line but the wheels were before or touching the line. However, if you're stopped the way the car in that picture shows, nobody is going to buy straddling the line to be "at" the line.

    Second, the statute doesn't say "at the crosswalk." This one is WAY more specific. It says "otherwise before entering the crosswalk."
    Even without a limit line, having your bumper (let alone the wheels) in the crosswalk will be in violation.
    I believe your interpretation of CVC 22450, along with that of other posters to be correct. I can of course see how it would be difficult for one to argue that even if one were stopped over the limit line with the front part of the car into the crosswalk that this is being legally stopped at (in, on or near) the stop sign.

    And? Strange? Really? Nothing to see here, move along. She tried the "cry her way out of a ticket" trick and it didn't work.
    To be accurate and fair to the cop, I will make a correction. My mom told me that the interaction with the cop was weird and distressing. She did not actually state that the cop was weird but of course she did make it clear to me that he was rude.

    And? Your mom made a piss poor joke and the cop called her on it. Nobody would want that kinda crap put on them.
    You’re correct.

    2 prior citations say otherwise.
    One of her citations was from 13 years ago for speeding on a freeway far out of town from where she resides, where she had never driven before, where she allegedly drove 65 MPH in a 55 MPH zone that had very quickly changed from a 65 MPH zone into a 55 MPH zone. I don’t know that driving 65 MPH in a 55 MPH zone that very quickly changed to a 55 MPH zone would be “flagrantly” violating the law. The other ticket she was issued was a few years ago and it was unfortunately also for an alleged stop sign violation. It was where a stop sign had not been for the last few decades and had just been put up. My mom was not used to it being there and did not notice it until it was of course too late. She spoke to a number of other people she knew who also were issued tickets at the same stop sign who were also not used to the stop sign being there. I could see how this could be a problem of not being as attentive to important detail in front of you as you need to be but I don’t know that it is a “flagrant” violation of the law. With that being said, all of this is of no relevance legally or in helping her to get her ticket dismissed. As you would say “Nothing to see here, move along.”

    You mom broke the law, time to pay the piper. If she could afford the bail to take it to trial, she can afford the ticket. I would also point out that you are only getting mom's side of the story. The officer's, which may be recorded, could be quite different.
    My mom allegedly broke the law; she has not yet been found guilty of breaking the law. I know this is not quite your opinion, and it may also be your opinion that it doesn’t really matter whether she allegedly did or not. You may believe the cop did in fact see her stop the front of her car in the middle of the sidewalk and it will be her word against the cop’s as to whether she actually broke the law or not and the cop will more than likely prevail as a witness in making the citation stand. However, it has always been a fundamentally important legal point that a person is innocent until proven guilty. As to your comment that my mom could afford to post bail, yes, she did have the ability to post bail, but she could not easily afford the cost of the ticket. She is of modest financial means and the cost of her ticket could obviously be better used for things like food and medicine. There is a difference between having ability to pay for something but it not really being affordable. My mom cannot really afford to have gotten the ticket, as she has no money to throw away. Again though, this is of no legal relevance to her case. You are correct about me only getting my mom’s side of the story, as it is impossible for me to clearly know all the details of what transpired in her interaction with the cop since I was not in the car with her at the time. It seems the cop may have been having a rather bad day. I of course realize that the cop being rude and abrupt with my mom is fairly irrelevant as a legal defense.

    This isn't the first time that Geo has proven that he should really leave interpretations of the law to others who might have a bit of a grasp of how to interpret it.
    I can’t disagree with you one bit on this.

    Where do you get that idea about "7 days" from?

    It takes a minimum of TWENTY ONE DAYS from the date the citation is issued to receive a courtesy notice. And so your Mom received hers in record time. But even if she didn't, it is meaningless simply because the courtesy notice has nothing to do with the validity of the citation and even if she did not receive one, it would still be just as valid a citation as any!
    When you say it takes a minimum of TWENTY ONE DAYS from the date the citation is issued to receive a courtesy notice, I’m guessing you may be referring to your own experiences or perhaps how long it takes Los Angeles Superior Court to mail courtesy notices. In Marin County, where my mom received her ticket and where I received mine back in late August of 2012 the due date to pay or appear is generally 21 days from the date of the citation. So if someone who was cited in Marin County was to receive their courtesy notice in the mail 21 days or longer from the date of their citation this would be of no real use to them to inform them of their fine amount or anything else. In regards to my idea of “7 days”, I will freely admit this is my bad. My initial belief that it takes generally about a week for someone to receive their citation (unless there is a mailing problem or delay) came from the fact that I received my Courtesy Notice for allegedly violating CVC 22350 7 days from my citation. I incorrectly generalized that maybe many or most other people who have been cited for traffic infractions in Marin County and possibly elsewhere receive their courtesy notices in the mail about a week after their citation. I now believe that when people receive their courtesy notices in the mail probably varies a fair amount. My mom actually received her notice 17 days (not 16 days as I mistakenly stated) after her citation was issued. This was four calendar days before her deadline to appear or pay, or two business days before her deadline to pay or appear. I would not consider this “record time”, especially since I received mine 7 days after my citation. Clearly courts are different in general and specifically to when they mail out courtesy notices. Much of when a courtesy notice is mailed of course depends on when the police department eventually mails a copy of the citation to the Traffic Court office. After two weeks, one can call the Marin County Traffic Court to find out what their fine amount is if they have not received their courtesy notice in the mail. I was aware before I began this thread that there is no legal requirement that the court even mail a courtesy notice to you. I was just a bit surprised that it took more than twice as long for my mom to receive her courtesy notice as it did for me to receive mine. Although we know it is not a legal requirement for a person cited to receive a courtesy notice, there are nonetheless guidelines for mailing courtesy notices by the Judicial Council. In the 2012 California Rules of Court, Standard 4.41. Courtesy notice-traffic procedures states:
    (a) Mailed courtesy notice
    Each court should promptly mail a "courtesy notice" to the address shown on the Notice to Appear. The date of mailing should allow for the plea-by-mail option in infraction cases.
    Again though, I’m well aware that none of this is of any legal relevance and a courtesy notice is just that, a courtesy.

    Maybe I'm missing something...were you in your mom's car when she was stopped? I don't think I read anywhere that you were there. If so, you have to understand the comment the cop allegedly made, "I held an old lady’s hand that was dying today.” could have been in response to an alleged snooty comment from your mother. Just saying. You have to understand that while she may be your loving mother, she could have let's say, inflated, intentionally or unintentionally parts of the story.
    I was not in my mom’s car when she was stopped, so I’m not a witness and it is impossible to know all the details of precisely what transpired between her and the cop without having been there.

    Well, water falling out of the sky is rain. Water drizziling out of the sky is rain. A monsoon is rain. If I put my dry hand down on the pavement and lift up a wet hand from a damp road, is my hand not still wet?
    Yes, you’re correct.

    While you speak the truth in the fact the cops actions independent to the violation, most departments will not investigate 3rd party complaints, which i allege he is just that, a 3rd party.
    Yes, I am a third party. I have left it up to my mom as to whether or not she wishes to pursue a complaint with the Police Department and I have had no intention of doing this for her but I would support her in doing this if she wanted to.

    By the way, Sniper, I see that you are a Northern California cop. Thank you for your service and helping to make the world a safer place!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation, VC 22450(A)

    Thanks again for the past inputs of posters here. My mom had partial success at her court appearance. The judge reduced her ticket charge from a stop sign violation to a blocking the intersection charge, which is a no-point violation, so she is spared the expense and hassle of doing traffic school. I feel the judge did her a favor. My mom mentioned to the judge her inappropriate comment and poor joke to the cop where she said she hoped she did not have a heart attack on her way to her appointment at the hospital to have her blood drawn (as I mentioned, she has a heart condition) and she expressed she felt bad about this. She said that the traffic stop was a wake up call for her to be more careful in abiding by stop sign traffic rules and that she would abide by whatever the judges decision would be. Somewhat against the advice of posters here, she did mention being stunned by the officerís comments about holding an old ladyís hand that died that morning and his comment that he is protecting the public from ďflagrant violators of the lawĒ, implying that my mom is a flagrant violator of the law. My mom stated to the judge she is not perfect, but does not really think she is a ďflagrant violator of the law.Ē My momís testimony relating to the copís demeanor and state of mind did not seem to hurt her case. The fact that the cop is apparently not a particularly sensitive or considerate person and that this was apparent in my momís traffic stop and his demeanor in court did not seem to help the copís case and seemed to work in my momís favor, in my opinion.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation, VC 22450(A)

    In other words, her pity party didn't work on the officer. She then tried her pity party on the judge instead and may have gotten a little something for it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation, VC 22450(A)

    The officer is generally not given the opportunity to respond to comments and pleas made by the offenders to the court. I suspect that the officer's account included only his rendition of events concerning the detention and the violation and, unless asked by the court, he was unable to provide any context or input on your mother's oratory.

    The action of the commissioner (and I believe it to be a commissioner and not a judge because of the fact that he allowed a plea to an offense not included in the charges) could be unlawful. It is my understanding that the court cannot arbitrarily modify the offense from the bench and allow a plea to an offense not alleged or charged. So, your mom did, indeed, get a heck of a break - possibly an illegal one. But, since there is no prosecutor to object, and the officer is not likely to care enough to raise the issue, it will stand.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Stop Sign Ticket, CVC 22450
    By rick92647 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-27-2012, 07:38 AM
  2. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Failure to Stop at a Stop Sign, Traffic Violation Code VC 22450(A), Fresno California
    By JasonDDI in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-25-2011, 12:41 PM
  3. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Failure to Stop at a Stop Sign, California VC 22450(A)
    By imset in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-10-2011, 09:53 PM
  4. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Rolling Through Stop Sign Citation, VC 22450
    By Loren in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-07-2011, 10:45 PM
  5. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Running a Four Way Stop Sign - CVC 22450(a)
    By ponnan in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-18-2011, 02:41 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources