Results 1 to 10 of 28

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    12

    Default Disregard of an Illuminated No Turn Arrow

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington

    I was pulled over last Friday and cited for RCW 46.61.050. I was headed northbound on Kirkland Way and came to a complete stop at the intersection when I saw it turn yellow. I then proceeded to make my right turn onto NE 85th Street heading east after stopping quickly when the light turned red. At this recently updated intersection, there is a now an illuminated no turn sign that turns for Kirkland Way traffic when the 114th Ave NE traffic signal turns green. The officer that pulled me over on NE 85th from behind was most likely front in line for the 114th Ave NE traffic signal; hence, he was able to catch up to me and pull me over just pass I-405.

    Long story short, the officer said that I turned when that illuminated no turn arrow was on. I told the officer I saw no such arrow when I turned and stuck to that story. Basically I told him I did not see and am not aware of an illuminated no turn arrow at that traffic signal. I was cited at the scene and left immediately. It was around 7pm, dark, and the officer was in a dark blue Ford Expedition.

    Last night, I came back to the scene and took some photos and videos of the traffic signal where I was accused of disobeying. There is exactly 3 seconds between the time my traffic light on Kirkland Ave turns red and the No Turn Arrow control device illuminates. The sign illumination coincides directly with the oncoming NE 114th signal turning green.

    From reading posts on this forum, it sounds like I have no chance of winning this case based on whether I was guilty or not using the I had a 3 second window before the No turn arrow illuminates argument.

    I'm going to submit my ticket to the Kirkland courthouse today marked as Contest. I'll also be retrieving the Discovery documents after I receive my Contest Hearing date. Hopefully I find some good leverage there.

    Does anyone here have any additional advice for me? I'm contemplating just hiring a traffic lawyer to ease the pain of argument, but I'm concerned that a lawyer will get the same outcome as me.

    I am currently eligible for deferral and have no tickets on record. The cost of deferral is $200 + cost of the $124 ticket according to the form I retrieved through Kirkland Muni. web site. The last ticket I got was when I was 16 years old and that was dismissed after a year of probation. Basically I have 12 years of clean driving history.

    Video, Map, and Pictures here:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/8756135...7632479655123/

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    1,588

    Default Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington

    Is there any other sign that says no right on red? Do you know if this sign is only in operation between certain hours? You may stand a chance of winning if the officer could not see the sign from his vantage point. I haven't been through that intersection for over a year and a half.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington

    Quote Quoting Speedy Gonzalez
    View Post
    Is there any other sign that says no right on red? Do you know if this sign is only in operation between certain hours? You may stand a chance of winning if the officer could not see the sign from his vantage point. I haven't been through that intersection for over a year and a half.
    No other signs at this intersection. The sign which is hard to see clearly in the pictures/videos is simply a right turn arrow with an X through it. The sign operates at all hours of the day and only lights up when the traffic signal for NE 114th St is green for vehicles turning left and/or going straight. The no turn sign was installed after the intersection was redone/updated 6 months ago. Basically since both lanes on NE 114th are free to turn left, they don't want traffic on Kirkland Ave to turn into them while making a right.

    If the officer was sitting in the left turn lane on 114th NE, there's no chance he was able to clearly see the no turn arrow which would be the sign post right above his patrol car facing away from him. I believe the officer was under the impression that if his light is about to turn green or is green, that the no turn sign would be on for me.
    The discovery documents will hopefully give me an idea of where the officer was at the time I made the turn. I'm pretty certain he was across from me on 114th NE because that was the only group of cars that turned and ended up directly behind me. There was a pretty large gap between me and the cars turning left onto NE 85th from 114th Ave NE. I didn't get flashing lights until he caught up to me 25-30 seconds later right underneath I-405 headed east.

    I'll work on getting better photos during the day. Google maps still shows the old intersection.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    1,588

    Default Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington

    Sounds to me that you have a real chance to get this one thrown out depending on what the officer says in his report. Whether or not a judge will buy the story is a different issue.

    What I would do is get a hold of the city planner's office and see if you can get the schematic/blueprint/whatever for that light and HOW exactly it is wired up to run. $10 says they took the easy route and wired it to the green lamp power for the opposing side of the street. That's why it does not turn on until the light goes green, and explains the pause in the light coming on. You would be able to confirm this by going across the street and watching when the no turn light turns off. I would almost bet another $10 says it is as soon as the signal turns from green turns yellow.... but it is possible they wired it through a diode or solid state relay or something to make it run when green or yellow are lit. At any rate, it will be interesting to see if I am right.

    Had they done it correctly, they would have just changed out the right turn lane bulb for a red arrow, and put up a no right turn on red sign. (This screams money maker to me --- something stinks)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Fail to Obey Traffic Control Device (Illuminated No Turn Arrow)-Washington

    Quote Quoting Speedy Gonzalez
    View Post
    Sounds to me that you have a real chance to get this one thrown out depending on what the officer says in his report. Whether or not a judge will buy the story is a different issue.

    What I would do is get a hold of the city planner's office and see if you can get the schematic/blueprint/whatever for that light and HOW exactly it is wired up to run. $10 says they took the easy route and wired it to the green lamp power for the opposing side of the street. That's why it does not turn on until the light goes green, and explains the pause in the light coming on. You would be able to confirm this by going across the street and watching when the no turn light turns off. I would almost bet another $10 says it is as soon as the signal turns from green turns yellow.... but it is possible they wired it through a diode or solid state relay or something to make it run when green or yellow are lit. At any rate, it will be interesting to see if I am right.

    Had they done it correctly, they would have just changed out the right turn lane bulb for a red arrow, and put up a no right turn on red sign. (This screams money maker to me --- something stinks)
    You are correct about the delay. The no turn arrow simultaneously turns on when the signal for NE 114th turns green. As to whether they installed a diode to handle both green and yellow, I'll need to confirm.
    The 3 second delay after the traffic light turning red for Kirkland Way is totally deceiving. It gives a total false impression that we're free to make a right turn there after stopping on red. The no turn arrow should really illuminate after 1 second to give those turning on yellow to red to get through their turn. In this circumstance, I was better off blowing the yellow to red and not stopping at all. The officer would have thought my traffic light was still green or yellow with a 3 second delay.
    Does the officer actually have to see the no turn arrow illuminating to prove that I was guilty or can he assume it was illuminated if his traffic signal was green?

    Also, what would the purpose of retrieving an official schematic/diagram of how the traffic control device is wired? Is this to prove that there is a 3 second delay for someone to still turn right on red? Just thinking out loud here-if the officer states that I turned after his traffic signal turned green, I'm still in the wrong. The only thing I can think of would be the 3 second delay prompting me to go because there was nothing indicating that I couldn't turn.
    Thanks for all the advice!

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Similar Threads

  1. Hearings and Trials: Trial De Novo for Left Turn on Red Arrow Violation, VC 21453c
    By DazedConfusion in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-25-2012, 10:03 PM
  2. Traffic Lane Violations: Disregard Traffic Control Device Right Turn from Straight Lane
    By alpalpalp in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-11-2011, 01:59 PM
  3. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Traffic Violation 22101d - Right Turn on Red Arrow
    By jennifls in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-31-2010, 12:25 PM
  4. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Photo Ticket, Red Left Turn Arrow
    By Emyville in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-20-2010, 07:14 PM
  5. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Red Arrow Light Did Not Turn Green
    By tammy09 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-07-2009, 11:56 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources