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  1. #1
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    Default COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bill

    My question involves a condominium located in the State of: California

    I am a landlord of a unit I own in Culver City, CA. I currently reside on the east coast, so this has been a major pain for me..here's what happened:

    On Nov. 4th, something went wrong with my toilet (I'm not sure what. I am sending a plumber to check it out this weekend) - the maintenance manager for my HOA CLAIMS it was a part on my toilet that went bad, leading to the supply line breaking, which resulted in a huge leak. I do not trust the HOA maintenance manager to accurately report the problem, because I know how these guys try to get out of responsibility.

    Anyway, this leak occurred at 2am on a weekend. I was not informed of what happened for 2 days. The maintenance manager left me a voicemail saying, they could not reach my tenant to get into the unit, and water was leaking into the common hallway. I spoke with the tenant the next day, and he said the HOA had sent in a company to dry my carpet. I thought, at this point, they were doing it because the leak was on their end. I admit, I probably should have filed an insurance claim as soon as my tenant told me this..anyway, it was taking them forever to dry the carpet.

    I asked my real estate agent to go to the unit and take a look at what was happening. I am all the way on the east coast and have no way of inspecting my property. She sent me back photos showing giant stains on my carpet. The tenant told me, the stains were from the dehumidifiers the HOA's company brought in.

    a day or so later, I get a call from the maintenance supervisor telling me, I owe the HOA $3700!!! I got into an argument with him. I pointed out, I should've been notified of the leak immediately so that I could file a claim..plus, there is no proof one way or another that this was a problem on MY end. Also, I brought up the stains that their company caused. I also chastised him for not calling me for 2 days--he claimed they "didn't have my number", which is RIDICULOUS. I have lived there since Dec. 2008, and they've had my nnumber AND email address, the whole time.

    At this point, I DID file a claim with my homeowners insurance (Farmers) and they are just starting the claim process.

    I understand that the HOA has certain powers to deal with emergency situations, especially water leaks, but they did not even give me the chance to fix it. Plus, what is their liability re: the stained carpet??

    For $3700 to dry the stupid carpet, I could have just had it replaced!!

    What should I do?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    Quote Quoting sandrawg
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    [T]he maintenance manager for my HOA CLAIMS it was a part on my toilet that went bad, leading to the supply line breaking, which resulted in a huge leak. I do not trust the HOA maintenance manager to accurately report the problem, because I know how these guys try to get out of responsibility.
    So... what did your tenant say?
    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    Anyway, this leak occurred at 2am on a weekend. I was not informed of what happened for 2 days. The maintenance manager left me a voicemail saying, they could not reach my tenant to get into the unit, and water was leaking into the common hallway.
    Are you saying that you were informed, but didn't listen to the voice mail, or that the incident occurred during the weekend and the voice mail was left on Monday?
    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    a day or so later, I get a call from the maintenance supervisor telling me, I owe the HOA $3700!!! I got into an argument with him. I pointed out, I should've been notified of the leak immediately so that I could file a claim..
    You appear to be stating that you were informed of the incident on the first business day after the incident.
    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    plus, there is no proof one way or another that this was a problem on MY end.
    Sure there is. As you told us, the maintenance staff who fixed the leak saw that it was a problem on your end.
    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    Also, I brought up the stains that their company caused.
    And they said what?
    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    I also chastised him for not calling me for 2 days--he claimed they "didn't have my number", which is RIDICULOUS.
    Perhaps the person to whom you spoke had no access to those records outside of normal business hours.
    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    I understand that the HOA has certain powers to deal with emergency situations, especially water leaks, but they did not even give me the chance to fix it.
    You have told us that there was water flooding out of your unit into the hallway, on a weekend, and that your tenant was not home. Let's say they had been able to reach you - what would you have done?
    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    Plus, what is their liability re: the stained carpet?
    Their responsibility lies somewhere between "nothing", cleaning, and compensation for the depreciated value of the carpet, depending upon the full facts.
    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    What should I do?
    How did your insurance company respond to your claim?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    So... what did your tenant say?

    Are you saying that you were informed, but didn't listen to the voice mail, or that the incident occurred during the weekend and the voice mail was left on Monday?

    You appear to be stating that you were informed of the incident on the first business day after the incident.
    They left a voicemail after east coast business hours Monday; the leak happened late Saturday. My tenant has no clue what caused the leak; he's not a plumber. He did, however, replace the part that the maintenance person said was bad, for me. That didn't stop the leak, however. I have a friend with plumbing experience out there I'm gonna pay to fix it.

    Sure there is. As you told us, the maintenance staff who fixed the leak saw that it was a problem on your end.
    Yeah..you don't know my HOA. They're always trying to weasel out of responsibility. Last time I had a leak, they blamed it on my neighbor upstairs who had a leaky tub, even tho neither my plumber nor my neighbor's plumber corraborated that theory.

    And they said what?
    The maintenance guy denied it was their fault. Like I said, they never accept responsibility. My tenant, however, sent me photos of the machines the company used that caused the stains.

    Perhaps the person to whom you spoke had no access to those records outside of normal business hours.
    There's a 24-hour guard on duty at my development who has had my phone number since I moved there in Dec. 2008. :-P

    You have told us that there was water flooding out of your unit into the hallway, on a weekend, and that your tenant was not home. Let's say they had been able to reach you - what would you have done?
    I would've immediately contacted my homeowners insurance company, Farmers!!


    Their responsibility lies somewhere between "nothing", cleaning, and compensation for the depreciated value of the carpet, depending upon the full facts.

    How did your insurance company respond to your claim?
    The claims adjuster made an appointment to see the unit last week but that turned into a debacle because he couldn't get in. Although he had an appointment with my tenant, he couldn't get into the community. The guard wasn't able to reach my tenant. My tenant says he was home the whole time and the phone never rang. I dunno wth happened, but they have an appointment tomorrow, and I stressed to mv tenant that it's crucial he make this appointment.

    I don't want the HOA coming after me, threatening a lien over this bill.

    My insurance agent said there is a good chance Farmers will cover at least part of it, but to me it's ridiculous they're charging me $3700. I could get a new carpet for that. My unit is only 700 sq feet. I dunno what their company did that warrants that big of a bill! According to my tenant, they didn't even pull up the carpet to make sure the underneath got dry.

    There is still the matter of the stains which basically means I need to get a new carpet anyway.

    I'm considering a lawsuit since the HOA is in denial mode about my stains but it costs $250 just to get a lawyer to review my case. ?!!!!?!!


    Thanks for your reply.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    You said the tenant's fix didn't fix the problem and you will be sending somebody out to fix it; is it still leaking?



    stained carpet; what actually caused the stains?


    On Nov. 4th, something went wrong with my toilet (I'm not sure what. I am sending a plumber to check it out this weekend) - the maintenance manager for my HOA CLAIMS it was a part on my toilet that went bad, leading to the supply line breaking, which resulted in a huge leak.
    define: supply line.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    Quote Quoting jk
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    You said the tenant's fix didn't fix the problem and you will be sending somebody out to fix it; is it still leaking?
    Yes, but it's a slow leak.




    stained carpet; what actually caused the stains?
    As I mentioned above, the tenant told me that the carpet cleaner that the HOA brought in to dry my carpet, caused the stains with their de-humidifying machines.



    define: supply line.
    I dunno..I'm not a plumber, but the HOA maintenance manager said it was a problem with the supply line that feeds fresh water into the toilet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I should add..I've already sent an email to the general manager of the HOA letting her know 3 things:

    1) That I am not happy that maintenance did not notify me of this for 2 days, and that my phone number should be on file with the 24-hour guard, just as it has been for the past 4 yrs I've been living there;

    2) That I am looking into my legal rights re: HOA bringing in their own service provider and expecting me to cover the bill; and also regarding the carpet stains.

    3) that I am looking into the true source of the leak.

    This was 2 weeks ago; I haven't heard back. I'm not surprised, though. The manager of our complex is awful.

    I'm also planning to draft a letter to the HOA Board, once I find out what my claims adjuster says.

    I am still curious, tho, what you guys think my recourse is at this point.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    If you have a slow leak, I would expect a bill for damages that slow leak might be causing others.


    According to my tenant, they didn't even pull up the carpet to make sure the underneath got dry.
    I don't think they care if your unit is damaged. If you had enough water to require a water remediation company (which was obvious due to the water in the hall outside your unit), that is likely the damage they were concerned with.


    As I mentioned above, the tenant told me that the carpet cleaner that the HOA brought in to dry my carpet, caused the stains with their de-humidifying machines.


    Have a carpet cleaning company check out the stains on your carpet. Whatever the damages are should be covered under the remediation company's insurance.

    Why didn't YOUR tenant contact you about a leak that was so bad it was causing the hallway outside your unit to get wet? Why didn't your tenant hire somebody to mitigate the damages (fix the leak)? I really see a problem with you blaming the COA. It sounds like you should be glad they actually did something here. If the leak continued, who knows how much damage it could have done before your tenant did something about it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    Quote Quoting jk
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    If you have a slow leak, I would expect a bill for damages that slow leak might be causing others.
    I live on a first-floor unit. There's no damage to others, and it's a slow leak. My tenant's keeping it under control.

    You keep bringing up these side issues that have nothing to do with my question.







    Have a carpet cleaning company check out the stains on your carpet. Whatever the damages are should be covered under the remediation company's insurance.

    Why didn't YOUR tenant contact you about a leak that was so bad it was causing the hallway outside your unit to get wet? Why didn't your tenant hire somebody to mitigate the damages (fix the leak)? I really see a problem with you blaming the COA. It sounds like you should be glad they actually did something here. If the leak continued, who knows how much damage it could have done before your tenant did something about it.
    So, the company that dried out my carpet, has insurance to cover this type of thing?

    My tenant is foreign. He's from Russia and doesn't speak english well. I don't think he knew how to handle it.

    I still say, the HOA had my contact info. It was their responsibility to contact me, once they decided to call the remediation company. I also never got a quote for how much this was going to cost.

    I don't see how it's legal or kosher for an HOA to just come into an owner's unit, hire someone to fix a problem w/out the owner's approval, or giving the owner a quote for how much the work will cost...nor did they keep me appraised of how long this was going to take.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    If you want to know what insurance the remediation company holds, or what that insurance covers, you will need to ask them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    If you want to know what insurance the remediation company holds, or what that insurance covers, you will need to ask them.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    Quote Quoting sandrawg
    View Post

    I don't see how it's legal or kosher for an HOA to just come into an owner's unit, hire someone to fix a problem w/out the owner's approval, or giving the owner a quote for how much the work will cost...nor did they keep me appraised of how long this was going to take.
    It's called emergency services. They were mitigating the damages. Due to the leak, every hour repairs were not made it would cause more damage. Then, if the clean up was not started immediately, it would cause more damage. You have given many reasons contacting you would not provide an adequate response considering the urgency of the situation.





    they did not even give me the chance to fix it.
    My tenant has no clue what caused the leak; he's not a plumber. He did, however, replace the part that the maintenance person said was bad, for me. That didn't stop the leak, however. I have a friend with plumbing experience out there I'm gonna pay to fix it.
    It remained leaking for at least several days after you were told of the issue. The COA was obligated to act to mitigate damages.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: COA Repaired Water Leak in Rented Unit Without Notifying the Owner, Sent Large Bi

    Honestly, now I see why so many people complain about this forum.

    I haven't heard a single reply that cites California law and what HOAs are legally allowed to do.

    All I hear is, you guys' opinion about this being an emergency. This is all opinion and speculation on your part. And you guys are attorneys??

    Not sure this site should be called "expert law."

    I told you guys, my tenant changed the part that caused the calamatious leak, which stopped the flow of water for the most part. Now it's a slow drip my tenant is keeping under control. I also told you, had I been notified, I would've filed a claim right away and the insurance co. would've sent in one of their approved remediation specialists.

    You guys are ridiculously unhelpful when it comes to questions of LAW.

    Now I'm sure you'll all say "oh, you didn't hear what you wanted to hear, so now you're whining", which is what you say to everyone who complains about the lack of quality legal advice here,

    I'm done here. Peace out.

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    It's called emergency services. They were mitigating the damages. Due to the leak, every hour repairs were not made it would cause more damage. Then, if the clean up was not started immediately, it would cause more damage. You have given many reasons contacting you would not provide an adequate response considering the urgency of the situation.









    It remained leaking for at least several days after you were told of the issue. The COA was obligated to act to mitigate damages.

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