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  1. #1
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    Default Repeated Searches by Police, Medical Marijuana

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: California

    Okay so I live in Ventura County, but I am on probation in LA county for using someone else's credit card at target.

    A few months ago I was in LA county with a friend. (This friend is not on probation) I picked him up from his house he and I both have Physician's recommendations for medical marijuana use. So he brings with him a little under 1 ounce of hash. And puts it in my backseat. So we drive over to another friends house, because we know this guy makes Hash/Oil. We are going there to get the leftover trimmings from the making of this hash oil. This friend isn't home but has a specific trash can for the trimmings in the front yard and we know this. So we knock on the front door to see if he's home and ask first, but it turns out no one is home. So we are about to grab the trimmings from the front lawn trash bin, when I notice a woman staring at us from down the street. So I tell my friend okay well lets just come back and get them when He's home so there's no problems w him or the neighbors. So we get into my car, drive down the street a couple miles heading towards another friends house who also has a recommendation to go and have a smoking session.

    This friend lives in a culva sac. So when we see his car isn't in the driveway we make a U-turn out of the culva sac to go home, because our friend wasn't home. When we get done making our U-Turn 7 undercover police cars swarm out of nowwhere all with guns drawn telling me to get out of the vehicle face the other way and get down on my knees. (These were apparently burglary detectives)

    So they search my car becuase they claim oh well this is just a probation search. (because I guess one of the detectives know's another friend of mine who breaks into cars or something.)

    They find no stolen property which is what I guess they were looking for. They do find my friend's Hash and it seems to be to their delight.
    They at that point confinscate the hash, and an eigth of an ounce of really good marijuana from my pocket, cuff me and my friend throw us in the back of a police car then bring me and my friend down to their station. They say oh well this weed is a violation of probation. I reply, first no where on my terms of probation does it mention use or possession of cannabis. I have my PO's okay for its use, and a physicians recommendation. They looked dumbfounded.

    They then bring me and my friend to Van Nuys Jail. Book us both for Possesion of Hash with intent to sell. His bail is set at 25k while mine is set at 50k ?I guess the detectives said oh well because ur on Probation we are upping your bail by 25k. (keep in mind that i was never mirandized ever)

    Then 3 days go by I finally am sitting there waiting for court and they hand me a letter saying basically oh, we are sorry for the inconvienience but you were never arrested for those 3 days u spent in jail only detained. So I was released, no charges, nothing. My friend got OR and I guess he is still fighting the case not sure.

    Then when I get out I call my dad for a ride and he says oh did you know the LAPD just drove 30mins came to our house and all had guns drawn when I (my dad) came home. They searched the house 3 days after my arrest a couple hours before my release. Found nothing.

    Then I'd say about 4 times since my arrest in April of this year the LAPD has driven out of their way each time with about 10 detectives (always the same ones with guns drawn) out to my house to search and harrass me.

    Then after that the Ventura County Sherriffs wanna come out and harass me too. A couple days after LAPD comes Ventura comes asking about oh well cars were broken into down the street and your name came up.

    HOW DID MY NAME COME UP?????????? It's like the LAPD has nothing better to do then harass me so they call VCSD to come and do it for them.

    I just wanna know if all of this described above is legal?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    May we ask about your documented medical condition?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    Anxiety, Depression, PTSD, and I also have problems getting to sleep. My Physician believed medicinal cannabis would help to alleviate these disorders and it does help a lot.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    Quote Quoting matt4200
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    Okay so I live in Ventura County, but I am on probation in LA county for using someone else's credit card at target.
    Improtant to highlight the part about your being on probation. I presume that this also includes search conditions?

    So they search my car becuase they claim oh well this is just a probation search. (because I guess one of the detectives know's another friend of mine who breaks into cars or something.)
    Clearly they had some other information that indicated you might be up to something else. But, as you are on probation and they do not even need reasonable suspicion to conduct a search of you or your property when you are on probation, this sounds on the up and up ... provided they had good cause fr the initial stop and detention (and if they knew you or ran your name earlier, they did).

    They find no stolen property which is what I guess they were looking for. They do find my friend's Hash and it seems to be to their delight.
    They at that point confinscate the hash, and an eigth of an ounce of really good marijuana from my pocket, cuff me and my friend throw us in the back of a police car then bring me and my friend down to their station. They say oh well this weed is a violation of probation. I reply, first no where on my terms of probation does it mention use or possession of cannabis. I have my PO's okay for its use, and a physicians recommendation. They looked dumbfounded.
    Yeah, it's not common for probationers to be allowed to get high. But, some counties apparently allow it.

    They then bring me and my friend to Van Nuys Jail. Book us both for Possesion of Hash with intent to sell. His bail is set at 25k while mine is set at 50k ?I guess the detectives said oh well because ur on Probation we are upping your bail by 25k. (keep in mind that i was never mirandized ever)
    Keep in mind that about 9 in 10 arrests never require Miranda.

    And, why the sales? What did you have, do, or say to indicate sales? How was the hash packaged? Did they believe that you were trying to sell the dope to these associates and friends of yours?

    Then 3 days go by I finally am sitting there waiting for court and they hand me a letter saying basically oh, we are sorry for the inconvienience but you were never arrested for those 3 days u spent in jail only detained. So I was released, no charges, nothing.
    I'm going to guess that after investigating further, they found that there was no violation of probation and that the DA decided that they would honor your recommendation and they released you pursuant to PC 849(b).

    Then I'd say about 4 times since my arrest in April of this year the LAPD has driven out of their way each time with about 10 detectives (always the same ones with guns drawn) out to my house to search and harrass me.
    Ya know ... I doubt they sent TEN detectives to your house. You're not John Gotti. If they did, then you are up to a heck of a lot more than you admit here.

    The problem with being on probation is that the police can generally search you when the mood strikes them.

    I just wanna know if all of this described above is legal?
    Unless you can make a case that the searches are being conducted solely to harass you and without any legitimate purpose, yes, they appear to be legal.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    Yes it is usually between 8 to 10 Detectives.

    I have no idea how it was packaged, because it wasn't mine my friend only told me he had an ounce of hash and I saw that he said it was in a silver case.

    Yeah it does include search terms but it's not harassment to send the same 8 to 10 detectives every single time from LA county to Ventura County just to search my house? Always with a bunch of guns and bulletproof vests?

    And no I am not up to more than described above.

    They found nothing on the initial search, the DA rejected their cases pursuant to PC 849 so they continue come over here and search my place.

    Can they just up my bail like that? and throw me in jail and do whatever they want with me?

    Oh and also, on the initial stop they took my cell phone it costs about $200 and I want it back but everytime I call over there they say we have no knowledge of a phone what phone pretty much what should I do?
    It'd be much better if they could just call over to VCSD and ask hey could you do us a favor and go search his house for us we have a hunch he might be up to something.

    And lastly, let's say they did find something then because whatever they found was found in Ventura county wouldn't Ventura have jurisdiction over the case not LA?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    Quote Quoting matt4200
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    Yes it is usually between 8 to 10 Detectives.
    That number of detectives on one probation search is unheard of even in L.A. unless we are talking about some serious dealers or criminal offenders. Perhaps they are plain clothes task force officers rather than "detectives." If they are wearing polos and khakis, they are likely from a narcotics task force. if they are in suits and ties, then they are likely detectives. They just do not waste resources like that. Perhaps there are a couple of detectives, some task force guys, and some probation folks in conjunction with each other?

    Yeah it does include search terms but it's not harassment to send the same 8 to 10 detectives every single time from LA county to Ventura County just to search my house? Always with a bunch of guns and bulletproof vests?
    Once again, I doubt they are a squad of LAPD detectives. They do not operate that way. These guys are likely a drug task force. And, for whatever reason, they seem to think you are more deeply involved than you are or that you will admit.

    If you feel that you are being unduly harassed, you can complain to their supervising officer or agency, or you can engage an attorney to try and address the manner. If there is truly nothing going on they will grow weary of wasting their time and eventually stop coming so often.

    Can they just up my bail like that? and throw me in jail and do whatever they want with me?
    The police cannot raise your bail. They submit a request to a judge outlining their reasons for the request and a judge decides on any increase - if any.

    And, yes, if they arrest you they can request a bail enhancement. It doesn't happen automatically, and a judge can reject it, but they can ask.

    Oh and also, on the initial stop they took my cell phone it costs about $200 and I want it back but everytime I call over there they say we have no knowledge of a phone what phone pretty much what should I do?
    You can make a claim to the seizing agency for the cost of the phone. You can also make a personnel complaint. If they deny your claim, you take them to Small Claims Court and see if you can convince a court that you have a valid claim.

    And lastly, let's say they did find something then because whatever they found was found in Ventura county wouldn't Ventura have jurisdiction over the case not LA?
    Maybe ... maybe not. If they prosecute you for the probation violation with probation out of L.A. then they can seek jurisdiction. Otherwise, Ventura County might take it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    It's actually a group of burglary detectives mostly suits and ties none are w probation at all. All detectives I think 2 are sergeants in the LAPD topanga division. None are narcotics officers. No less then 8 when LAPD shows up. VCSD only sends 2 maybe 3 at the most when they come.

    No paperwork was sent to a judge once we got to the jail he told the jail officer to increase my bail amount by 25k for simply being on probation. I know for a fact that no judge authorized this. The same thing happened with one of my friends a couple weeks later.

    How would I go about getting my phone back? assuming they still have it.

    These specific detectives are not to be mean but they are malicious and uncaring of violating civil rights, or due process.

    My friend was picked up by them a few weeks after me for a misdemeanor poss. of burglars tools, (he is on probation) but the burglars tools were like a nail file and a multi tool thing swiss army. He sat in jail for 2 weeks after the first couple days the DA had rejected the case, but was still stuck sitting in jail due to a "probation hold" which was placed on him by the LAPD detectives. he had to see a judge to get it taken off. There was no order for a probation hold by any judge at the courthouse, and when he was released he went to his probation officer, and his probation officer said neither him nor anyone in that probation office placed a hold on him while in custody.

    So if that is not police corruption or malicious intent of a peace officer i don't know what is...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    Quote Quoting matt4200
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    It's actually a group of burglary detectives mostly suits and ties none are w probation at all. All detectives I think 2 are sergeants in the LAPD topanga division. None are narcotics officers. No less then 8 when LAPD shows up. VCSD only sends 2 maybe 3 at the most when they come.
    Then something else is going on here. I know guys there, and they don't typically operate that way.

    No paperwork was sent to a judge once we got to the jail he told the jail officer to increase my bail amount by 25k for simply being on probation. I know for a fact that no judge authorized this. The same thing happened with one of my friends a couple weeks later.
    Bail is set by schedule. Anything outside the established bail schedule must be approved by a judge. So, unless that $25,000 extra was for the original offense for which you were on probation or set because you were on probation, they would have had to get a judge's approval. The county - or city - jails cannot arbitrarily assign bail.

    How would I go about getting my phone back? assuming they still have it.
    You request it back. If they deny having it you may have to pursue the matter in small claims court - make a claim, if they deny the claim, you sue. If they admit having it and won't return it, you try to get the matter before a court to order them to release it.

    These specific detectives are not to be mean but they are malicious and uncaring of violating civil rights, or due process.
    There's the rub - you have no right to 4th Amendment protections on probation with search conditions.

    If you believe they are being malicious and unprofessional, you make a personnel complaint. You can also consult with an attorney to see if you have a cause of action against them. If it is worth it to you to spend a few thousand dollars to try and seek some form of damages or to get them to back off a bit, then by all means give it a go. But, if you have nothing to hide, they WILL get tired of showing up. If you DO have something to hide, then I can understand why you would want them to go away.

    There was no order for a probation hold by any judge at the courthouse, and when he was released he went to his probation officer, and his probation officer said neither him nor anyone in that probation office placed a hold on him while in custody.
    The police (or Probation) can charge the hold (PC 1203.2) as they might for any other crime. The DA then decides whether they want to pursue it. Apparently the DA did not want to pursue it against your friend.

    So if that is not police corruption or malicious intent of a peace officer i don't know what is...
    You may not know what it is ... your batting around the terms "corruption" and "malicious intent" without actually defining specifics that might show this. "Corruption" is a term often misunderstood and used to define any perceived malfeasance, and that is not entirely accurate. And "malicious intent" requires very specific articulation which I have not heard here.

    So, as I said, if you feel this is inappropriate, you make a personnel complaint against the officers involved and let the agencies look into it, and/or you speak to an attorney to see if you have any cause of action for damages or a court order to have them back off. Complaining here and accusing the officers of malice and corruption might be moderately cathartic, but it is entirely ineffective to resolve the problem.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    If you knew these specific detectives you'd know what I am talking about.

    They might assume something more is going on, because a few like 1 person I know used to a couple years ago go breaking into cars in the SFV area. But I mean just knowing him is no reason to put me through this crap. There is no evidence that I am involved in anything that he is so why come after me?

    I read the entirety of PC 1203.2 it says nothing mentioning a probation hold. Only that the cops or PO's can bring a person in front of a judge. Which they did not do they arrested him once, put a probation hold on him while talking to the jailers so that he could not post bail. And once the case was rejected he was at no point "rearrested" he was just being held because the detectives are malicious and placed a hold on him theirselves while in the process of booking him for the original misdemeanor.

    Probation had no knowledge he was even arrested, until he told them, and they certainly did not place the hold nor did any judge.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Malicious Police

    Quote Quoting matt4200
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    If you knew these specific detectives you'd know what I am talking about.
    I know a lot more of them than you do and if they are running around in ten man teams, then something is up.

    I read the entirety of PC 1203.2 it says nothing mentioning a probation hold.
    PC 1203.2(a) is the section that authorizes a peace officer to arrest a person on probation that they believe has violated the terms of their probation. You need to read it again.

    And once the case was rejected he was at no point "rearrested" he was just being held because the detectives are malicious and placed a hold on him theirselves while in the process of booking him for the original misdemeanor.
    Yes, they can add the charge of PC 1203.2 for a person who is arrested and accused of violating the terms of their probation. I do it with some frequency.

    Probation had no knowledge he was even arrested, until he told them, and they certainly did not place the hold nor did any judge.
    That's great. But, the police can still arrest him for a violation of the terms of his supervision if they have probable cause to believe he DID violate the terms of his probation. If the DA declines to pursue it, so be it. The DA declines to pursue charges on many arrests. The standard to prosecute is higher than that to arrest - probable cause versus proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

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