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  1. #1
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    Jul 2006
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    Ohio
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    Default Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense

    Ohio. Not sure that is relevant. Maybe I shouldn't post this here but, Aaron please move it if not.

    The issues about using a defense of a mental disorder is very tricky. And might make things confusing for the person with a DSM-IV Axis I major mental disorder questioning how mechanics of showing up with or without a public defender.

    The history of medication reactions/a recent change in medications/a recent change in fluid intake/loss of weight causes a change in the behavior is not using "a" or "the mental illness as a defense". It is the change in behavior caused by a change in the medication that may be considered "a defense". And Rmet was right on about that being the Public Defender's area of expertise.

    One of the most wonderful things about bipolar manic depression is they move fast. They sometimes shock people because they pay attention to what is said and then move on it real fast. And forget to report back between step 1 and step 4 for instructions between steps. Doesn't occur to them- squirrel get nut. It is sometimes funny as in entertaining but not always in their best interest.

    remet,
    Sorry I bit your head off, but 'thas my passion' (Louis Ferricon).

    Last point, psychiatrists have a unique relationship with their patients. They respond to telephone calls from patients at odd times. They make a diagnosis, prescribe medications, monitor what the patient reports, change medications, change axis I and axis II and so on for years. The commitment is to function at the highest level for that person at that time (Axis V- Global Functioning). When someone says their psychiatrist is going with them to face a judge, please consider that a sacred professional relationship. Don't mess with it. Say what you think, if you have to, but tell them to check it out with their doc.

    These are DSM-IV diagnosis for episodes of anxiety, manic episodes, depressive episodes. They mean something and are not just "pin the tail on the donkey" (sorry, Sis). I mean (cross-out donkey) pin the tail on the diagnosis.

    300.00 Anxiety state, unspecified
    300.0 Anxiety states
    309.28 Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood
    Adjustment reaction with anxiety and depression
    300.02 Generalized anxiety disorder
    309.21 Separation anxiety disorder
    309.24 Adjustment disorder with anxiety
    300.4 Dysthymic disorder
    293.84 Anxiety disorder in conditions classified elsewhere
    300 Anxiety, dissociative and somatoform disorders
    307.42 Persistent disorder of initiating or maintaining sleep
    296.80 Bipolar disorder, unspecified
    Bipolar disorder NOS
    296.5 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) depressed
    Bipolar disorder, now depressed
    296.4 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) manic
    Bipolar disorder, now manic
    Manic-depressive psychosis, circular type but currently manic
    296.7 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) unspecified
    296.8 Other and unspecified bipolar disorders
    296.89 Other
    Bipolar II disorder
    Manic-depressive psychosis, mixed type
    296.6 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) mixed
    Manic-depressive psychosis, circular type, mixed
    296.0 Bipolar I disorder, single manic episode
    307.42 Persistent disorder of initiating or maintaining sleep
    309.0 Adjustment disorder with depressed mood (Grief reaction)
    309.1 Prolonged depressive reaction
    300.3 Obsessive-compulsive disorders
    296.0 Bipolar I disorder, single manic episode
    300.4 Dysthymic disorder (Anxiety depression)
    296.2 Major depressive disorder, single episode
    298.0 Depressive type psychosis
    296.3 Major depressive disorder, recurrent episode
    V79.0 Depression
    311 Depressive disorder, not elsewhere classified
    296.1 Manic disorder, recurrent episode
    309.28 Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood

    I hate it when someone tells a patient that they don't think the diagnosis is correct or they should stopping taking their medications. Then we have to fish them out of the river or lake. Thanks.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2006
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    not sure
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    Default Re: Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense

    [QUOTE=deadlock;56258]Ohio. Not sure that is relevant. Maybe I shouldn't post this here but, Aaron please move it if not.

    The issues about using a defense of a mental disorder is very tricky. And might make things confusing for the person with a DSM-IV Axis I major mental disorder questioning how mechanics of showing up with or without a public defender.

    The history of medication reactions/a recent change in medications/a recent change in fluid intake/loss of weight causes a change in the behavior is not using "a" or "the mental illness as a defense". It is the change in behavior caused by a change in the medication that may be considered "a defense". And Rmet was right on about that being the Public Defender's area of expertise.

    One of the most wonderful things about bipolar manic depression is they move fast. They sometimes shock people because they pay attention to what is said and then move on it real fast. And forget to report back between step 1 and step 4 for instructions between steps. Doesn't occur to them- squirrel get nut. It is sometimes funny as in entertaining but not always in their best interest.

    remet,
    Sorry I bit your head off, but 'thas my passion' (Louis Ferricon).

    Last point, psychiatrists have a unique relationship with their patients. They respond to telephone calls from patients at odd times. They make a diagnosis, prescribe medications, monitor what the patient reports, change medications, change axis I and axis II and so on for years. The commitment is to function at the highest level for that person at that time (Axis V- Global Functioning). When someone says their psychiatrist is going with them to face a judge, please consider that a sacred professional relationship. Don't mess with it. Say what you think, if you have to, but tell them to check it out with their doc.

    These are DSM-IV diagnosis for episodes of anxiety, manic episodes, depressive episodes. They mean something and are not just "pin the tail on the donkey" (sorry, Sis). I mean (cross-out donkey) pin the tail on the diagnosis.

    300.00 Anxiety state, unspecified
    300.0 Anxiety states
    309.28 Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood
    Adjustment reaction with anxiety and depression
    300.02 Generalized anxiety disorder
    309.21 Separation anxiety disorder
    309.24 Adjustment disorder with anxiety
    300.4 Dysthymic disorder
    293.84 Anxiety disorder in conditions classified elsewhere
    300 Anxiety, dissociative and somatoform disorders
    307.42 Persistent disorder of initiating or maintaining sleep
    296.80 Bipolar disorder, unspecified
    Bipolar disorder NOS
    296.5 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) depressed
    Bipolar disorder, now depressed
    296.4 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) manic
    Bipolar disorder, now manic
    Manic-depressive psychosis, circular type but currently manic
    296.7 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) unspecified
    296.8 Other and unspecified bipolar disorders
    296.89 Other
    Bipolar II disorder
    Manic-depressive psychosis, mixed type
    296.6 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) mixed
    Manic-depressive psychosis, circular type, mixed
    296.0 Bipolar I disorder, single manic episode
    307.42 Persistent disorder of initiating or maintaining sleep
    309.0 Adjustment disorder with depressed mood (Grief reaction)
    309.1 Prolonged depressive reaction
    300.3 Obsessive-compulsive disorders
    296.0 Bipolar I disorder, single manic episode
    300.4 Dysthymic disorder (Anxiety depression)
    296.2 Major depressive disorder, single episode
    298.0 Depressive type psychosis
    296.3 Major depressive disorder, recurrent episode
    V79.0 Depression
    311 Depressive disorder, not elsewhere classified
    296.1 Manic disorder, recurrent episode
    309.28 Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood

    I hate it when someone tells a patient that they don't think the diagnosis is correct or they should stopping taking their medications. Then we have to fish them out of the river or lake. Thanks.[/QUOTE

    Would that be fishing the medications or the patient out of the river or lake?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    985

    Default Re: Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense

    Quote Quoting deadlock
    View Post
    Ohio. Not sure that is relevant. Maybe I shouldn't post this here but, Aaron please move it if not.

    The issues about using a defense of a mental disorder is very tricky. And might make things confusing for the person with a DSM-IV Axis I major mental disorder questioning how mechanics of showing up with or without a public defender.

    The history of medication reactions/a recent change in medications/a recent change in fluid intake/loss of weight causes a change in the behavior is not using "a" or "the mental illness as a defense". It is the change in behavior caused by a change in the medication that may be considered "a defense". And Rmet was right on about that being the Public Defender's area of expertise.

    One of the most wonderful things about bipolar manic depression is they move fast. They sometimes shock people because they pay attention to what is said and then move on it real fast. And forget to report back between step 1 and step 4 for instructions between steps. Doesn't occur to them- squirrel get nut. It is sometimes funny as in entertaining but not always in their best interest.

    remet,
    Sorry I bit your head off, but 'thas my passion' (Louis Ferricon).

    Last point, psychiatrists have a unique relationship with their patients. They respond to telephone calls from patients at odd times. They make a diagnosis, prescribe medications, monitor what the patient reports, change medications, change axis I and axis II and so on for years. The commitment is to function at the highest level for that person at that time (Axis V- Global Functioning). When someone says their psychiatrist is going with them to face a judge, please consider that a sacred professional relationship. Don't mess with it. Say what you think, if you have to, but tell them to check it out with their doc.

    These are DSM-IV diagnosis for episodes of anxiety, manic episodes, depressive episodes. They mean something and are not just "pin the tail on the donkey" (sorry, Sis). I mean (cross-out donkey) pin the tail on the diagnosis.

    300.00 Anxiety state, unspecified
    300.0 Anxiety states
    309.28 Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood
    Adjustment reaction with anxiety and depression
    300.02 Generalized anxiety disorder
    309.21 Separation anxiety disorder
    309.24 Adjustment disorder with anxiety
    300.4 Dysthymic disorder
    293.84 Anxiety disorder in conditions classified elsewhere
    300 Anxiety, dissociative and somatoform disorders
    307.42 Persistent disorder of initiating or maintaining sleep
    296.80 Bipolar disorder, unspecified
    Bipolar disorder NOS
    296.5 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) depressed
    Bipolar disorder, now depressed
    296.4 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) manic
    Bipolar disorder, now manic
    Manic-depressive psychosis, circular type but currently manic
    296.7 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) unspecified
    296.8 Other and unspecified bipolar disorders
    296.89 Other
    Bipolar II disorder
    Manic-depressive psychosis, mixed type
    296.6 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) mixed
    Manic-depressive psychosis, circular type, mixed
    296.0 Bipolar I disorder, single manic episode
    307.42 Persistent disorder of initiating or maintaining sleep
    309.0 Adjustment disorder with depressed mood (Grief reaction)
    309.1 Prolonged depressive reaction
    300.3 Obsessive-compulsive disorders
    296.0 Bipolar I disorder, single manic episode
    300.4 Dysthymic disorder (Anxiety depression)
    296.2 Major depressive disorder, single episode
    298.0 Depressive type psychosis
    296.3 Major depressive disorder, recurrent episode
    V79.0 Depression
    311 Depressive disorder, not elsewhere classified
    296.1 Manic disorder, recurrent episode
    309.28 Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood

    I hate it when someone tells a patient that they don't think the diagnosis is correct or they should stopping taking their medications. Then we have to fish them out of the river or lake. Thanks.
    It's been a long day and this post is far too cryptic to go into right now. First of all you are making reference to a CA case, not OH case, different laws and different forensic standards. While it may be your passion, it is the area in which I am a qualified expert witness, so, I can with some confidence comment upon what is likely to happen in court or the nature of a court ordered psych evaluation.

    OP in that thread had no excuse for not taking their Rx other than the same excuse typical of bipolar patients, that is why they sought Rx for depression and was Rx Paxil which in turn induces the manic episodes upon which they thrive. I never suggested they not take their Rx,. At first that OP claimed they didn't have the money due to unemployment and not able to afford COBRA health insurance and that was the reason they shoplifted food. I explained the gold standard for bipolar Rx which is most affordable and clinics where they could receive both free treatment and medication, then they revealed they were medically discharged from the Army and entitled to VA benefits and that they happen to live about 20 miles from a VA clinic so less excuse for not taking their Rx. You need to consider all the facts, not just some of the facts.

    Since you are in Ohio, you are not familiar with psychiatric/psychological testimony in California. While a provider may be supportive of their client/patient, they are not going to actually sit by their side in court or testify in person except for in rare instances, instead, they will respond either in writen reports or in depositions outside of the client/patient's presence so they can answer honestly the clinical questions without harming the client/patient relationship. This is very expensive and not likely going to be an issue in a petty theft case. At most the doctor may provide a brief written report, the PD office might obtain an independent evaluation of limited scope. The patient/client may not even have access to the record of psychological testimony or records in the same manner as other medical records.

    Providers can only answer the questions put to them and the PD is not going to open up a can of worms. Most likely they will try to negotiate some sort of diversion program which may include community service, therapy, group therapy, restitution and/or civil recovery, they may have supervised or unsupervised probation, most likely this will involve a few brief peroidic court appearances. You are correct, it is possible we may never hear again from OP.

    I would be surprised if OP was on their meds when writing their volumes of posts here expecially given their lack of focus, if they are on their meds, then they are not effectively managing the bipolar aspects of their disorder. Typically, the military, especially the Army doesn't give a medical discharge for bipolar/depression, even for personality disorders, except for borderline PD and possibly Asperger's, both of which OP claimed not to have, these discharges are General under honorable conditions, slightly different than an honorable discharge. While OP may have functioned at a high level for a number of years, the fact that their functioning has declined with age suggests something in addition to bipolar Dx, thus the referal for further evaluation is appropriate. Despite all this, bipolar is not an affirmative defense, it can be a mitigating factor in their defense. Here are some examples. http://www.armfor.uscourts.gov/diges...dig/IIIB11.htm http://www.opm.gov/lmr/sc/145/145_10.asp

  4. #4
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    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ohio
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    Default Re: Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense

    [QUOTE=cissycicle;56268]
    Quote Quoting deadlock
    View Post
    Ohio. Not sure that is relevant. Maybe I shouldn't post this here but, Aaron please move it if not.

    The issues about using a defense of a mental disorder is very tricky. And might make things confusing for the person with a DSM-IV Axis I major mental disorder questioning how mechanics of showing up with or without a public defender.

    The history of medication reactions/a recent change in medications/a recent change in fluid intake/loss of weight causes a change in the behavior is not using "a" or "the mental illness as a defense". It is the change in behavior caused by a change in the medication that may be considered "a defense". And Rmet was right on about that being the Public Defender's area of expertise.

    One of the most wonderful things about bipolar manic depression is they move fast. They sometimes shock people because they pay attention to what is said and then move on it real fast. And forget to report back between step 1 and step 4 for instructions between steps. Doesn't occur to them- squirrel get nut. It is sometimes funny as in entertaining but not always in their best interest.

    remet,
    Sorry I bit your head off, but 'thas my passion' (Louis Ferricon).

    Last point, psychiatrists have a unique relationship with their patients. They respond to telephone calls from patients at odd times. They make a diagnosis, prescribe medications, monitor what the patient reports, change medications, change axis I and axis II and so on for years. The commitment is to function at the highest level for that person at that time (Axis V- Global Functioning). When someone says their psychiatrist is going with them to face a judge, please consider that a sacred professional relationship. Don't mess with it. Say what you think, if you have to, but tell them to check it out with their doc.

    These are DSM-IV diagnosis for episodes of anxiety, manic episodes, depressive episodes. They mean something and are not just "pin the tail on the donkey" (sorry, Sis). I mean (cross-out donkey) pin the tail on the diagnosis.

    300.00 Anxiety state, unspecified
    300.0 Anxiety states
    309.28 Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood
    Adjustment reaction with anxiety and depression
    300.02 Generalized anxiety disorder
    309.21 Separation anxiety disorder
    309.24 Adjustment disorder with anxiety
    300.4 Dysthymic disorder
    293.84 Anxiety disorder in conditions classified elsewhere
    300 Anxiety, dissociative and somatoform disorders
    307.42 Persistent disorder of initiating or maintaining sleep
    296.80 Bipolar disorder, unspecified
    Bipolar disorder NOS
    296.5 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) depressed
    Bipolar disorder, now depressed
    296.4 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) manic
    Bipolar disorder, now manic
    Manic-depressive psychosis, circular type but currently manic
    296.7 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) unspecified
    296.8 Other and unspecified bipolar disorders
    296.89 Other
    Bipolar II disorder
    Manic-depressive psychosis, mixed type
    296.6 Bipolar I disorder, most recent episode (or current) mixed
    Manic-depressive psychosis, circular type, mixed
    296.0 Bipolar I disorder, single manic episode
    307.42 Persistent disorder of initiating or maintaining sleep
    309.0 Adjustment disorder with depressed mood (Grief reaction)
    309.1 Prolonged depressive reaction
    300.3 Obsessive-compulsive disorders
    296.0 Bipolar I disorder, single manic episode
    300.4 Dysthymic disorder (Anxiety depression)
    296.2 Major depressive disorder, single episode
    298.0 Depressive type psychosis
    296.3 Major depressive disorder, recurrent episode
    V79.0 Depression
    311 Depressive disorder, not elsewhere classified
    296.1 Manic disorder, recurrent episode
    309.28 Adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood

    I hate it when someone tells a patient that they don't think the diagnosis is correct or they should stopping taking their medications. Then we have to fish them out of the river or lake. Thanks.[/QUOTE

    Would that be fishing the medications or the patient out of the river or lake?
    That would be the psychiatrist and the meds, of course.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,094

    Default Re: Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense

    and this post is far too cryptic to go into right now
    then rmet goes on and on and on.
    First of all you are making reference to a CA case, not OH case, different laws and different forensic standards.
    Rmet, please look at the title of the thread. Where in my comment did I say anything about a Ca case?

    OP in that thread had no excuse for not taking their Rx other than the same excuse typical of bipolar patients, that is why they sought Rx for depression and was Rx Paxil which in turn induces the manic episodes upon which they thrive. I never suggested they not take their Rx,. At first that OP claimed they didn't have the money due to unemployment and not able to afford COBRA health insurance and that was the reason they shoplifted food. I explained the gold standard for bipolar Rx which is most affordable and clinics where they could receive both free treatment and medication, then they revealed they were medically discharged from the Army and entitled to VA benefits and that they happen to live about 20 miles from a VA clinic so less excuse for not taking their Rx. You need to consider all the facts, not just some of the facts.
    What in the world are you talking about? Who asked you for your opinion of what she does in her private life? Do you hate yourself so much?

    Since you are in Ohio, you are not familiar with psychiatric/psychological testimony in California. While a provider may be supportive of their client/patient, they are not going to actually sit by their side in court or testify in person except for in rare instances, instead, they will respond either in writen reports or in depositions outside of the client/patient's presence so they can answer honestly the clinical questions without harming the client/patient relationship. This is very expensive and not likely going to be an issue in a petty theft case. At most the doctor may provide a brief written report, the PD office might obtain an independent evaluation of limited scope. The patient/client may not even have access to the record of psychological testimony or records in the same manner as other medical records.

    Providers can only answer the questions put to them and the PD is not going to open up a can of worms. Most likely they will try to negotiate some sort of diversion program which may include community service, therapy, group therapy, restitution and/or civil recovery, they may have supervised or unsupervised probation, most likely this will involve a few brief peroidic court appearances. You are correct, it is possible we may never hear again from OP.

    I would be surprised if OP was on their meds when writing their volumes of posts here expecially given their lack of focus, if they are on their meds, then they are not effectively managing the bipolar aspects of their disorder. Typically, the military, especially the Army doesn't give a medical discharge for bipolar/depression, even for personality disorders, except for borderline PD and possibly Asperger's, both of which OP claimed not to have, these discharges are General under honorable conditions, slightly different than an honorable discharge. While OP may have functioned at a high level for a number of years, the fact that their functioning has declined with age suggests something in addition to bipolar Dx, thus the referal for further evaluation is appropriate. Despite all this, bipolar is not an affirmative defense, it can be a mitigating factor in their defense. Here are some examples.
    You have a comment about someone else writing volumes and volumes?

    I really have no idea where you go with your responses of this and that of how much you know and what an expert of this and that. I don't make my responses for you. I respond to the question that is asked by OP. You make your responses fit your need to impress. I guess in California a forensic expert witness can diagnose, prescribe medications, answer legal questions and give direction to people about paperwork they are to complete for the court. But see here out in the back country of Ohia we're not used to doing things like that. The people who make the diagnoses are physicians.

    Somehow, You have decided that You have some Supreme Authority to judge others, to decide what the person should and should not do in any situation from medical malpractice to criminal law. You have decided that You're an Expert in, and an authority on all subjects. But I really don't understand anything you say. You go off in a direction that is so completely off the subject I feel like I need to hire a private plane to find out where you went. The woman, who asked about the court date scheduled two days after her planned move, did not ask you for your opinion about her diagnosis, or really anything else.

    You told someone on "another forum" that the State Board who licensed a physician has nothing to do with the doctors "scope of practice". You don't realize it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about?

    Are you hoping to get some work thrown your way by the number of responses that you've made? So how's it working for you? The quality of your responses is really low budget.

    Here is some free advice. Do not attempt to diagnose anybody. It is out of your knowledge base. You appear an idiot by making such ridiculous statements. Stick to what you know. Maybe someone will be interested in hiring you to actually testify.

  6. #6
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    Default Response to Deadlock's locked thread:Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense

    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14714
    Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense
    California
    I often question what your intent is here, especially since you were banned on another site because of your inappropriate behavior there making accusations against other members and questioning their professionalism. Apparently, you have once again stepped over the line and your thread was locked before I could respond to your accusations.

    You assume far more than you should. So while I was in bed asleep, like a normal person you were responding in the middle of the night with this?

    For those with interest, these are the two threads referenced in this thread which deadlock failed to post in her thread, I'm sure this was an oversight.

    The first was posted by the member referred to as "OP", neither Deadlock nor myself, and the second a portion of the original thread moved by Aaron after Cissycicle disrupted "OP"'s thread and then locked necessitating Deadlock starting a new thread titled:Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense.
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14568 http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14651
    Quote Quoting rmet
    .....and this post is far too cryptic to go into right now
    Quote Quoting deadlock
    View Post
    then rmet goes on and on and on.
    You know this was in reference to your past responses that were problematic which we discussed. Here is another long post that doesn't quite make a point, what does quoting the DSM-IV have to do with the forensic standards for psychiatric testimony? Have you ever heard of the Frye test? Daubert?

    My opening statement which was set apart from the response, was a "sigh". It was late and I wanted to go to bed, but still I responded to your cryptic post, nor did I make any disparaging remarks towards you even when you called me Remet instead of Rmet, I understood it to be a typo.

    Quote Quoting deadlock
    Rmet, please look at the title of the thread. Where in my comment did I say anything about a Ca case?
    Asked and answered in the above introduction to this response, but to refresh your memory the referenced thread was titled: Re: Bipolar disorder, ran low on meds and shoplifted at Safeway in California. I have provided the references to the threads so the readers here can judge for themselves who said what as opposed to your mis-attributed accusations.

    Quote Quoting Deadlock
    What in the world are you talking about? Who asked you for your opinion of what she does in her private life? Do you hate yourself so much?
    Are you asking yourself this question? What on Earth does giving an OP who has scattered thoughts, FOCUS, have to do with my self-esteem? Specific instructions and links to the appropriate office of the court, is not questioning their private life, OP claimed difficulty accessing the courts because of their disability and California Superior Court provides ADA accommodations under CRC Rule 989.3. Because of their Access needs I referred them to contact the Public Defender's office prior to their 1st court appearance and to apply for ADA accommodations, these are things they need to do in advance, not when they appear in court at the last minute and a clerk is not going to tell them this information unless they specifically ask and perhaps not even then. So, what do you have against OP that you want to deny them the accommodations accorded for their disability. ADA accommodations level the playing field, having a disability is not an affirmative defense.

    Quote Quoting Deadlock
    You have a comment about someone else writing volumes and volumes?
    OP's posts were long and not focused, your post was long and not focused. If you will note my initial response to OP's 2 lengthy posta was very short, something a person with an IQ of 132 should be able to implement without lengthy instructions. :
    09-20-2006, 04:25 PM
    rmet4nzkx
    Default Re: Bipolar disorder, ran low on meds and shoplifted at Safeway in California
    Contact the PD office and request ADA accommodations so you can work with your attorney by telephone and possibly at trial, most likely they can work up a deferred adjudication and some sort of probation, but being bipolar doesn't justify your other disorder, they are separate issues. Your doctor may be able to provide a declaration. Lithium is the preferred gold standard treatment for bipolar and cheap.
    Here is your response, in which you make reference to cleptomania, (Kleptomania) are you making a diagnosis? Notice I only made references to "other disorder" Persons with an Axis I or II disorder will often have at least one of both or traits listed as provisional or to R/O (rule out), thus the appropriately vague reference to "other disorder", psychological diagnosis evolve over time and it is appropriate to reevaluate on a continual basis, thus the referrals.
    Quote Quoting Deadlock
    Re: Bipolar disorder, ran low on meds and shoplifted at Safeway in California
    Your responsibility in the shoplifiting is admitting the truth. It sounds like your physician wil be a big support and I am glad you will have him with you. Have you been restablized on your medications? It is important because of how you will appear in court. Is the VA able to help with these medications?

    Was your discharge from the service due to your depression? You may have a history of other periods of time where you had some stablility that is valuable for your recent charges.

    It is difficult for most people to understand the effectiveness of meds like psychotropic, antipsychotic, antidepressants because they have not been affected directly. And they laugh about cleptomania, eating disorders and other compulsive disorders until they have a reason to know more about them.

    I understand your history is the basis for your anxiety disorder and that it is helpful to "put it all out there" legal forum or not.

    Being "lucid" is not a factor in bipolar depression. Characteristics are more like racing thoughts. The depression is usually very dark with suicidal thoughts. But you know this is just the illness and the reality is you will do well as in the past once you have gotten restablilzed.

    I hope that you will be with your family soon and have the support you need to get through this legal business.
    Last edited by deadlock : 09-20-2006 at 04:42 PM.
    It seems it was you digging into OP's personal life of which she went into great detail, making assumptions about how the legal system works in CALIFORNIA, diagnosis, missing the fact that they were on disability, etc. not me.

    Quote Quoting Deadlock
    I really have no idea where you go with your responses of this and that of how much you know and what an expert of this and that. I don't make my responses for you. I respond to the question that is asked by OP. You make your responses fit your need to impress. I guess in California a forensic expert witness can diagnose, prescribe medications, answer legal questions and give direction to people about paperwork they are to complete for the court. But see here out in the back country of Ohia we're not used to doing things like that. The people who make the diagnoses are physicians.
    What I do when preforming a court ordered evaluation or investigation is different than, a therapeutic relationship, or answering questions here where there is no client/clinician relationship. I don't need to impress anyone by posting a cut & past from the DSM-IV actually currently DSM-IV-TR (impress ) I did respond to OP's question
    Bipolar disorder, ran low on meds and shoplifted at Safeway in California
    once it was filtered out from all the other "background and personal information"
    Does court take into consideration my circumstances, diagnosis, recent events and the fact that the other arrests happened so long ago, occurred in an isolated cluster, and that I'd been a model citizen right up until the problem with my meds?
    Can my court date be set any sooner, so as not to be two days after my move?
    Will I be allowed to move back to Portland?
    Is there any chance of a reduction from misdemeanor to infraction? (I have since found a third-party agency that can assist with my medications so that they will be 80 dollars a month instead of 600 dollars, so the likelihood of this ever happening again should be nil.)
    .....
    (By the way, I am trolling the web in search of a reduced-fee attorney--I am not well enough to make the 54 mile round trip by car in order to wait around for a public defender.)
    Anyone with knowledge in this area, I'll worship you if you post a reply.
    It was in Op's best interest to refer them to the DA despite their excuse not to go drive 54 miles roundtrip when with the accommodations they could drive or take the bus and meet in a court facility 10 miles away or by phone, as an ADA accommodation. Once they connect with their PD all their other questions could be answered, I only indicated some possibilities. I can't answer about calendar changes or whether or not they can leave the jurisdiction.

    Quote Quoting Deadlock
    Somehow, You have decided that You have some Supreme Authority to judge others, to decide what the person should and should not do in any situation from medical malpractice to criminal law. You have decided that You're an Expert in, and an authority on all subjects. But I really don't understand anything you say. You go off in a direction that is so completely off the subject I feel like I need to hire a private plane to find out where you went. The woman, who asked about the court date scheduled two days after her planned move, did not ask you for your opinion about her diagnosis, or really anything else.
    I have never claimed to be an expert in all subjects, however my work and experience does place me in a place where I do have a wide scope of knowledge and I often provide additional cites or links to support my posts but I understand that you might have difficulty following since your own posts are often off topic. While OP asked in part about her move and court date I correctly referred her to the PD office for an answer, my comment about her diagnosis was because of her title and assumption that her diagnosis was an affirmative defense and it is not, she needs to know that before she ignores all the advice and wanders into the courtroom and is of the belief that she will be found not guilty for her repeat offense or worse, figure that if she moves to Oregon nothing will happen because of her diagnosis. She needs to know that while her doctor may be willing to testify on her behalf, it is unlikely to take the form she expects.

    Quote Quoting Deadlock
    You told someone on "another forum" that the State Board who licensed a physician has nothing to do with the doctors "scope of practice". You don't realize it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about?
    I cannot comment on your interpretation of some reference on another forum.

    [quote=Deadlock] Are you hoping to get some work thrown your way by the number of responses that you've made? So how's it working for you? The quality of your responses is really low budget. /quote] This is uncalled for. I am not soliciting work nor do I have contact with posters in the real world, I separate the virtual from the real world. My posts are PRICELESS, in other words, pro bono.

    Quote Quoting Deadlock
    Here is some free advice. Do not attempt to diagnose anybody. It is out of your knowledge base. You appear an idiot by making such ridiculous statements.
    This is coming from someone who doesn't know that the current DSM is the DSM-IV-TR?

    Quote Quoting Deadlock
    Stick to what you know. Maybe someone will be interested in hiring you to actually testify.
    This above all: to thine own self be true,
    And it must follow, as the night the day,
    Thou canst not then be false to any man.
    Farewell; my blessing season this in thee!

    -- William Shakespeare

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    Michigan
    Posts
    28,880

    Default Re: Response to Deadlock's locked thread:Mental Illness as a Criminal Defense

    Please note that I lock threads to end bickering. Please do not attempt to circumvent a lock by posting in a different thread or starting a new thread.

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