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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    2

    Question In Collections for a Sold Vehicle

    I sold my motorcycle in the state of Montana with a Montana Title in February of 2009. The title was signed over to the new owner there was no bill of sale as Montana does not require one and there is also no requirement or method to report a vehicle as having been sold. I let the owner ride the bike home with my plates under the condition that he return them which he never did (I know I should have hunted him down but at the time I didn't think it was a big deal).

    Now fast forward to this summer I was contacted by the towing company Evergreen State Towing who said that my motorcycle was in an accident and that I needed to come claim it. I stated it was sold some time ago and that there wasn't a bill of sale ect. I pulled a copy of the check that I cashed for the motorcycle and faxed them the information with a signed statement that I was not the legal owner of the bike. They said that they had already sent a certified letter to me but that I should not be liable for the bike. A month or so later I receive a notice from a collections agency that I owe $1,500. The notice says that I can notify them within 30 days in writing to dispute the claim which I intend to do but from what I've read so far today about collection agencies I don't think dealing with them is going to help my situation any.

    So my questions are how do prove that I don't own the motorcycle? Whose law applies, the motorcycle still had/has a Montana Title but was crashed in Washington and I still live in Montana? The police and tow company have the name of the rider, should I try to get that information? If I have the riders name is there anything I can do? I know that the rider is not the same as the person I sold the motorcycle to. All I really have is a cashed check.

    Thank you for any information you can provide.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have contacted a lawyer and now have a consultation scheduled in a few weeks (soonest available). They did have a $50 consultation fee which from what I've read is not the norm. Should I be worried that they don't offer a free first consultation? Should I look for another legal service in my area?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    Default Re: In Collections for a Sold Vehicle Montana vs. Washington Law

    Your plates not being on the vehicle helps, however a copy of the signed/notarized title showing transfer is likely the least acceptable proof.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: In Collections for a Sold Vehicle

    Quote Quoting MTNic
    View Post
    I sold my motorcycle in the state of Montana with a Montana Title in February of 2009. The title was signed over to the new owner there was no bill of sale as Montana does not require one and there is also no requirement or method to report a vehicle as having been sold.
    The bill of sale, though, helps document the "as is" nature of the sale and can be useful in the event that you need to prove the car was sold.
    Quote Quoting MTNic
    I let the owner ride the bike home with my plates....
    Never, ever do that. Never.
    Quote Quoting MTNic
    ...under the condition that he return them which he never did (I know I should have hunted him down but at the time I didn't think it was a big deal).
    And now you know differently.
    Quote Quoting MTNic
    So my questions are how do prove that I don't own the motorcycle?
    Your evidence would normally be (a) the retained license plates, (b) the bill of sale, and (c) a copy of the title after you add the sale information, and (d) the completed title transfer. As it stands, all you appear to have is (e) a canceled check, perhaps including something on the memo line about the payment being for the motorcycle sale, perhaps not. You may have one more thing, though, as it seems pretty clear that you did not execute the transfer at a DMV or government office. The notary who verified your signature should have a record of that act, and thus be in a position to confirm that you executed a vehicle title on that particular day.

    You can attempt to argue that you completed your statutory duties by completing the transfer of title, and that you bear no further responsibility under the law; but with only a check, and no copy of the completed transfer information, I don't know that you'll persuade either the creditor or its collection agency. That said, if the creditor already told you that they were accepting your story and would not be going after you, you can follow up with them and ask why they are having their collection agency pursue you for a debt they seemed to agree wasn't yours.
    Quote Quoting MTNic
    Whose law applies...
    To what?
    Quote Quoting MTNic
    I have contacted a lawyer and now have a consultation scheduled in a few weeks (soonest available). They did have a $50 consultation fee which from what I've read is not the norm. Should I be worried that they don't offer a free first consultation?
    Free consultations are most common with contingency work, divorce and criminal cases - where you can discuss the facts and get a feel for the lawyer before you receive any actual legal services. For your type of claim, you actually need a legal analysis and for that it's reasonable for the lawyer to charge for his time.
    Quote Quoting Montana Code, Sec. 61-3-220. Certificate of title -- voluntary transfer -- duties.
    (1) Upon the voluntary transfer of any interest in a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile for which a certificate of title was issued under the provisions of this chapter, the owner whose interest is to be transferred shall:

    (a) authorize, in writing and on a form prescribed by the department, an authorized agent, or a county treasurer, to enter the transfer of the owner's interest in the motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile to the transferee on the electronic record of title maintained under 61-3-101; or

    (b) execute a transfer in the appropriate space provided on the certificate of title issued to the owner and deliver the assigned certificate of title to:

    (i) the transferee at the time of delivery of the motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile; or

    (ii) the department, its authorized agent, or a county treasurer if an application for a certificate of title has been completed by the transferee and accompanies the assigned certificate of title.

    (2) The transferor's signature on the certificate of title, or the form authorizing transfer of interest upon the electronic record of title, must be acknowledged before the county treasurer, a deputy county treasurer, an elected official authorized to acknowledge signatures, an employee or authorized agent of the department, or a notary public.

    (3) Except as provided in 61-4-111, the person to whom an interest in a motor vehicle has been transferred shall:

    (a) execute an application for a certificate of title in the space provided on the assigned certificate of title or as prescribed by the department; and

    (b) within 40 days after the interest in the motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile was transferred to the person, either:

    (i) apply for a certificate of title under 61-3-216 and register the motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile under 61-3-303; or

    (ii) subject to the limitations of 61-3-312, register the motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile without the surrender of a previously assigned certificate of title and application for certificate of title under 61-3-303.

    (4) If the person to whom an interest in a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile has been transferred fails to comply with the requirements described in subsection (3) within the 40-day grace period, a late penalty of $10 must be imposed against the transferee. The penalty must be paid before the transferee registers the motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile in this state, with or without the surrender of an assigned certificate of title. The penalty is in addition to the fees otherwise provided by law.

    (5) If the transferee does not comply with the requirements of subsection (3) within the 40-day grace period, a secured party or lienholder of record may pay the fees for the transfer of title and for filing a voluntary security interest or lien. The secured party or lienholder is not liable for the late penalty imposed in subsection (4) or for registration fees, taxes, or fees in lieu of tax on the motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, pole trailer, camper, motorboat, personal watercraft, sailboat, or snowmobile.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: In Collections for a Sold Vehicle

    Mr. Knowitall,

    I first have to say think you for taking what must have been more than a few minutes to read my post, look up relevant Montana law, apply it to my issue, and reply with a very concise detailed post. It absolutely made my day to read your response.

    I have certainly learned a lot from this issue and for around $1,800.00 and no shortage of frustration I will remember it until the day I die.

    you may have one more thing, though, as it seems pretty clear that you did not execute the transfer at a DMV or government office. The notary who verified your signature should have a record of that act, and thus be in a position to confirm that you executed a vehicle title on that particular day.
    This is an excellent idea, the date will not be the same as I had been trying to sell the bike for some time and would have notarized it in advance (also common in MT) but should be within a month or so.

    if the creditor already told you that they were accepting your story and would not be going after you, you can follow up with them and ask why they are having their collection agency pursue you for a debt they seemed to agree wasn't yours.
    I'm already working on this and I will keep this thread updated. I currently only have phone conversations and faxes from me to the towing company. If I can get them to agree again I will try and get them to fax that to me immediately and have them mail a written signed copy as well. I'm guessing that having a mailed copy would hold some significance over a faxed copy?

    Free consultations are most common with contingency work, divorce and criminal cases
    Noted and appreciated.

    Whose Law AppliesTo What
    My apologies I should have added a bit more relevant information. My original call to both the Washington tow company and Washington police department involved convincing/informing them that I was not required to fill out any official government document after the sale of a vehicle other than the title. I was a concerned that since all physical property and actions of interest in regard to my current issue with creditor and their collections agency happened in Washington and that their laws might override Montana law and I would be required to have filled out Washington state paperwork. This seems to be a non issue.

    Montana Code, Sec. 61-3-220. Certificate of title -- voluntary transfer -- duties.
    Thank you for looking this up for me, it's certainly something I should have dug up on my own. I have read it several times and from my understanding I have completed my requirements. I do understand that since the purchaser didn't complete the required actions I am still without sufficient proof that I completed my required duties.

    Is it possible for the buyer to be brought to small claims court or required in another manner to pay for any fees I incur from the buyer's failure to register the vehicle as required by law? I know that I don't have all the proof I need to have but considering how lacking my knowledge is when it comes to the legal system there must be several ways I don't yet know that can be used to hold the buyer responsible for his actions.

    I know I've said it before but thank you again for your time.

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