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  1. #1
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: Can Police Obtain Search Warrant for Empty Premises Owner's if Whereabouts Unknow

    Thanks for the replies to date.

    When the original question about arrest warrants caught my attention, I decided I ought to know more about search warrants (a decision I'm beginning to regret), a wide subject, given the possible reasons for someone to want one. Therefore, I set out what I hoped was a case where the suspect was suspected of a serious crime, murder, of having committed it more than once, and of being about to commit it again (unless first apprehended). I should have made it clearer that the suspicion was that the suspect was a professional killer. Sorry for not doing so. A search warrant was wanted for his unoccupied premises as it was believed that there would evidence there of his present whereabouts.

    I constructed a fictitious case with the aim of presenting a question that would secure a clear answer. You know what I got. I hope I may try your patience by reposing my question.

    The suspicion is that a professional killer is about to kill again and that evidence of his present location is in his unoccupied home. Were I a judge, I'd grant a search warrant pronto. Is it not possible to say, from experience, if the 'typical span of time' for the securing of a warrant in such circumstances would be between one minute (the phone call solution) and three days (or three weeks, or three months)? It's hard to credit that a suspected killer would be allowed an abundance of time to kill again.

    Yes, I'm an ignorant non-police, non-legal citizen, but surely there's a limit to how long it's PROBABLE the issue of a warrant would take in a case of suspected murder. Please help, somebody.

    "Curiosity killed the cat, and right now I feel very feline" - John Truman, 2012.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can Police Obtain Search Warrant for Empty Premises Owner's if Whereabouts Unknow

    Listen very carefully....There is NO "typical" answer to the question. None. Zero. Everything is very fact specific. If probable cause does not exist, it doesn't exist. "Suspicion" that the person is a professional killer is not probable cause. The police generally have to be able to establish more than a baseline suspicion. A judge is not going to ignore that simply because the police say the person is a killer.

    How many times do you have to be told this?

  3. #3
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: Can Police Obtain Search Warrant for Empty Premises Owner's if Whereabouts Unknow

    I have it now. The part from 'Suspicion' to the end is new, so I got that pretty quickly. Pity it wasn't given before. I got the 'over the phone' thing from jk immediately, too. It was a straight answer and he didn't try to be smart, which suggests that he is. My thanks to jk. As for the rest, I understand that it could take 100 years to get a search warrant in California. I understand it, and I'm surprised. (As I understand it, being surprised is not against the law.)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Can Police Obtain Search Warrant for Empty Premises Owner's if Whereabouts Unknow

    You were given correct answers before, you just kept changing the details to see if the answer changed. It won't as there is NO such thing as a typical time frame in these situations.

    As for your little swipe at me, I'm quite intelligent and gave you correct answers. If you can't handle an occasional dig, the internet is not for you. Seek your answers in a law library or Google and quit wasting the volunteers time here.

    No being surprised is not against any current law. If only being thick was.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: Can Police Obtain Search Warrant for Empty Premises Owner's if Whereabouts Unknow

    I've never asked a question that was triggered by another question on here before. I'm sorry I did this time. Clearly, I misread the rules of the game.

    But consider: a defense attorney asks a police officer in court, 'How long does it usually take to get a search warrant?'
    The officer says, 'It takes what it takes.'
    I put it to you that that would not be considered satisfactory by the defense attorney, the judge (if it came to that - judges don't like contempt any more than I do), or the officer's superiors.

    You state as a fact (when it's an opinion, of course, but one your entitlement to which I'd die to defend) that I changed the details to see if the answer changed. Well, insofar as I was forced to do so in an attempt to get a straight answer, yes. But a straight answer at the start would have precluded all that. I suggest that I was the victim of an attempt at 'smartness' (not by you), which left me with an answer that must be vaguer than the truth: even if the longest it's taken in someone's experience to get a warrant is one year or ten years, that's a finite time. It is not 'as long as it takes.'

    As for backhanded swipes, I made none; to do so would have been unconscionably rude when I was asking for help in understanding something with which I'm totally unfamiliar. It was certainly not my intention to waste anyone's time (including my own).

    Your 'wrapper' appears to have been somewhat counter-productive, but, as I've already said, I've never tagged onto the end of someone else's question before and I won't do it again. And I will indeed look elsewhere for a satisfactory answer, since I only got half of it here.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Can Police Obtain Search Warrant for Empty Premises Owner's if Whereabouts Unknow

    Quote Quoting John Truman
    View Post
    I've never asked a question that was triggered by another question on here before. I'm sorry I did this time. Clearly, I misread the rules of the game.

    But consider: a defense attorney asks a police officer in court, 'How long does it usually take to get a search warrant?'
    The officer says, 'It takes what it takes.'
    I put it to you that that would not be considered satisfactory by the defense attorney, the judge (if it came to that - judges don't like contempt any more than I do), or the officer's superiors.
    If I received that question, my answer would be something similar to that. I'd be lying if I said it takes one day, or if I said it takes a month. It all depends. I'd likely indicate that it depends on the complexity of the matter being investigated, and could take between one day and several weeks to gather the information necessary to seek a search warrant.

    even if the longest it's taken in someone's experience to get a warrant is one year or ten years, that's a finite time. It is not 'as long as it takes.'
    Actually, it is. The process takes as long as it needs to. However, the information concerning the evidence must also be "fresh." I can't rely on probable cause that might be months old to get a warrant for something so fluid as, say, drug sales. But, if there might be evidence of deceased remains in the basement, I might not have such a concern.

    I have participated in the application and service of numerous warrants. The quickest was done in less than four hours, the longest was done over a period of several days. But, I know some that took months of further investigation to build a stronger case. It all depends.

    It all depends, and the process to seek the information necessary to apply for the warrant WILL take as long as it must.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Can Police Obtain Search Warrant for Empty Premises Owner's if Whereabouts Unknow

    Quote Quoting John Truman
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    blah blah blah
    It was not my opinion, I could tell based on the evidence it was a fact. You stated as much.

    You were given a correct and straight answer from the start. You just chose not to accept it. You have now heard essentially the same thing from someone with ample experience to give it. Satisfied?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Default Re: Can Police Obtain Search Warrant for Empty Premises Owner's if Whereabouts Unknow

    Quote Quoting John Truman
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    -snip-

    The suspicion is that a professional killer is about to kill again and that evidence of his present location is in his unoccupied home. -snip-
    John, I really can't tell what you're trying to get here.

    There is something in the law called "reasonable suspicion." It is less than probable cause, but greater than suspicion with no clear basis.

    If this were a true story, and police officers, based on information, truly believed a professional killer was "about" to kill again and the information to stop him was in that house, the answer is two seconds. There would be no warrant. The door would be off the hinges and the police would be scouring that house.

    True, evidence they found might not be admissible in court, and they might even get some grief for going in without a warrant, but if they had a serious belief based on information that they truly needed to do it to stop a killing that was "about" to happen, they'd stop it.

    God bless them. They have a tough job walking that legal tightrope, while always willing to put their lives on the line for ME.

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