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  1. #1
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    Default LIDAR Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    I was driving down San Vicente Blvd at approx 8pm. I was driving behind a white sedan & began a lane change to turn right on the upcoming street. A yellow car was in the #1 lane (that I was changing to) going significantly faster than I was. As I changed lanes, I noticed a LASD motorcyle officer in a construction area (closed since it was after hours), presumably attempting to tag speeders. I instantly got a bad feeling & glanced at my speedo to make sure I was within the legal limit (no posted speed limit). I noted my speedo reading approx 40-42mph. I run a smaller, yet wider, tire than stock on my RED car coupe & have noted the speed difference between what the speedo reads & what my actual speed is. Under 50mph, it's approx 5-7mph faster than actual speed. Over 50mph it's approx 7-11mph faster than actual speed - dependent on speed. I do not have documentation from a shop to note this, just the word of my mechanic. (Though it is knowledge anyone who knows about tires/wheel size would be aware of).

    As I was preparing to turn right, I noticed the motorcycle office coming up behind me with his lights flashing. I proceeded to pull over at the 1st safe place I could. While asking the usual questions, I explained my destination was 1 block from the location I pulled over. He asked if I knew how fast I was going to which I said I had an idea, as I had glanced at my speedo prior to initiating the lane change & told him my tire/speedo story. I also explained that the week prior, I was told by my mechanic that my throwout bearing in my clutch was starting to go & that I should drive very cautiously to extend the life of the bearing until I could get it in the shop. I told the Deputy there was no way I would willingly be driving in any manner that could cause harm to my clutch/throwout bearing. He claimed he tagged me at 50mph with Lidar. I asked him why he didn't tag the car ahead of me or the one next to me going the same speed. I also asking if he carried calibration records for the device. He stated he wasn't sure if he had them with him, but it didn't matter since he didn't have to show them to me either way.

    After issuing the ticket, he said "just for shits & giggles, c'mon out of the car, let's see if I have those papers". He did indeed have calibration records for a Lidar device last calibrated over 1 year prior to this date, though it is unknown if it was in fact the device he used for the ticket as he pulled it away before I could read anything more.

    Is there a chance, with the explanation I've provided about the tire size, etc, of winning this via a Trial by Declaration or a Court Trial? I spoke to several deputies at LASD (after my GF's apt was broken into (maybe a week after this ticket)) who have all said this officer is always in court & is known in the dept for being a bully & writing what 1 called "bogus traffic tickets". I didn't even mention a name to 1 of the deputies who came to do fingerprints, just the "shits & giggles" line & they knew exactly who he was & told me I should fight the ticket after hearing my side of the story.

    I have already requested an extension of this ticket as it occurred in April 2012. Am I screwed or is there a chance of beating this? I plan to do a Trial by Declaration, simply stating I am not guilty & presenting evidence in court if I lose the Trial by Declaration. Should I explain the tire size to speedo readout difference & the clutch/throwout bearing on it's last leg in the declaration? What, if any discovery should I request? (I do plan to request at a minimum: A list of all witnesses, A copy of the engineering and traffic survey - and any other documentation necessary to prove that this is not a speed trap as defined in Vehicle Code section 40802, A copy of all records regarding the maintenance and calibration of the laser unit used in this case, A copy of each and every certification issued to the Deputy involving the use of said laser unit, A copy of all of the Deputy's notes on this case including copies of the front and back of the officer’s copy of the ticket). Should I bother to request this info prior to the submission of the Trial by Declaration, or wait until a court trial if that's the outcome? Will a statement from the property owner disallowing officers to use their property for such purposes help? Does it matter if he wrote the wrong block # on the ticket?

    I did write a lengthy Trial by Dec, with lots of photos, maps & drawings, but I heard from several friends who have done similar, that it gave the officer all the info they needed to refresh their memories & present the judge with a convincing argument.

    On a side note, I am not currently working & paying the fine + traffic school is way more than I can afford at the moment (or the foreseeable future, unfortunately), so any and all help is greatly appreciated!! Thanks!!

    P.S. Sorry if this is long or slightly jumbled. It's late & I'm exhausted, but eager to do what is needed to fight this ticket

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    Quote Quoting handscreate
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    glanced at my speedo to make sure I was within the legal limit (no posted speed limit).
    So what the "legal limit" if its unposted?

    Which intersection with San Vicente was this on?

    You've offered nothing that will help you out of this citation. Not even the story about other sheriff deputies talking about the citing officer. The part about him always being in court is a cautionary statement, but it only means that he does make the effort to appear on cases where he's issued citations.

    You'll need to contact LADOT or LADPW and request a copy of the most recent engineering and traffic survey for that stretch of San Vicente.

    Once you receive that, post links to it here and we'll take it from there.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    So what the "legal limit" if its unposted?

    Which intersection with San Vicente was this on?

    You've offered nothing that will help you out of this citation. Not even the story about other sheriff deputies talking about the citing officer. The part about him always being in court is a cautionary statement, but it only means that he does make the effort to appear on cases where he's issued citations.

    You'll need to contact LADOT or LADPW and request a copy of the most recent engineering and traffic survey for that stretch of San Vicente.

    Once you receive that, post links to it here and we'll take it from there.
    I have always been under the impression that the legal limit when speed is not posted is assumed to be 35mph. The citing deputy must also be under this assumption, as he noted the posted speed to be 35mph.

    I do not know the cross street where the deputy was waiting - it was just South of Melrose, and North of Beverly. The 500 block of San Vicente.

    I plan to request the traffic survey tonight

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    LIDAR @ how far? If it's not on the ticket and if you they don't give it you (if you have to request it), mention that in the TBWD.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    Quote Quoting lostintime
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    LIDAR @ how far? If it's not on the ticket and if you they don't give it you (if you have to request it), mention that in the TBWD.
    Why? It's not going to influence the judge/commissioner since (as has been pounded over your head repeatedly) it is NOT required in CA.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    Quote Quoting handscreate
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    I have always been under the impression that the legal limit when speed is not posted is assumed to be 35mph.
    No. Actually, if the speed limit is NOT posted it could be a statutory Prima Facie limit of 25 if it is a residence district or a business district (per CVC 22352(a)(2)(A)) but that may depend on the number and type of structures on that road. Otherwise one could argue that the state's maximum of 65mph could apply. But that is a stretched out argument that is only likely to succeed if made by an attorney through a set of questions for the officer.

    Quote Quoting handscreate
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    The citing deputy must also be under this assumption, as he noted the posted speed to be 35mph.
    The 35mph speed limit is a random speed more likely established by an engineering and traffic survey and as such, it must be posted to be in effect. If the officer cited you for it, the presumption then is that it is posted properly unless you are able to prove otherwise.

    In this case, and as I suggested, it is properly posted: here it is for the northbound side, and here is one for the southbound side

    Quote Quoting handscreate
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    I do not know the cross street where the deputy was waiting - it was just South of Melrose, and North of Beverly. The 500 block of San Vicente.
    I thought you said you noticed him and his location... Which prompted you to check your speedometer, ... and all that jazz that followed!

    Quote Quoting handscreate
    View Post
    I noticed a LASD motorcyle officer in a construction area (closed since it was after hours), presumably attempting to tag speeders. I instantly got a bad feeling & glanced at my speedo to make sure I was within the legal limit (no posted speed limit). I noted my speedo reading approx 40-42mph. I run a smaller, yet wider, tire than stock on my RED car coupe & have noted the speed difference between what the speedo reads & what my actual speed is.
    Here is the 500 block of N San Vicente Blvd, West Hollywood, CA 90048

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    Why? It's not going to influence the judge/commissioner since (as has been pounded over your head repeatedly) it is NOT required in CA.
    It's not about being required, it's only required in one state to stay under 1,000ft.

    If it's above that (or even double/triple) he could make some arguments regarding accuracy. No idea what judge would view a 500ft LIDAR ticket the same as 2500ft. People here act as if it's completely irrelevant, only because they want to see everyone lose.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    Why? It's not going to influence the judge/commissioner since (as has been pounded over your head repeatedly) it is NOT required in CA.
    You can teach ignorant but you can't fix stupid!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    No. Actually, if the speed limit is NOT posted it could be a statutory Prima Facie limit of 25 if it is a residence district or a business district (per CVC 22352(a)(2)(A)) but that may depend on the number and type of structures on that road. Otherwise one could argue that the state's maximum of 65mph could apply. But that is a stretched out argument that is only likely to succeed if made by an attorney through a set of questions for the officer.



    The 35mph speed limit is a random speed more likely established by an engineering and traffic survey and as such, it must be posted to be in effect. If the officer cited you for it, the presumption then is that it is posted properly unless you are able to prove otherwise.

    In this case, and as I suggested, it is properly posted: here it is for the northbound side, and here is one for the southbound side



    I thought you said you noticed him and his location... Which prompted you to check your speedometer, ... and all that jazz that followed!



    Here is the 500 block of N San Vicente Blvd, West Hollywood, CA 90048
    When I drove by the same place (from La Cienega to Melrose, via Northbound San Vicente) about a week ago, I did not see a posted sign regarding the limit. I will check again, and if NOT posted in the same area I will take photos of the missing sign.

    As far as my noticing the officers location... I did notice him, and the driveway he was waiting in (the construction site at 500 N. San Vicente, possibly shared with a residence at 4??, just to the South of this construction zone). On the Northbound side of the road, there are no cross streets that go thru to the East from the 300 block to Melrose, which is why I did not know the cross street

    Here's the weblink to the traffic survey: http://www.weho.org/Modules/ShowDocu...ocumentid=8277






    Over the past few weeks I have witnessed several motorcycle deputies using this same driveway to "trap" motorists, going North & South, in the morning & evening.

    Does anyone know the law regarding officers using private property to monitor motorists? I know the sidewalk to the street is considered public property, but what about the driveway, whether gated or not? I would think this would be considered private property. In this case, the deputy was in the driveway about as far away from the street as he could possibly get without being in the neighbor at 4xx's garage or being in the dirt of the construction zone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    500 N. San Vicente

    The Deputy was on his motorcycle in the driveway of 500 N. San Vicente and/or 4xx N. San Vicente (the black gate shown directly South of 500 N. San Vicente)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Lidar Speeding Ticket, 50 in a 35 MPH Zone, CVC 22350

    Quote Quoting lostintime
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    It's not about being required, it's only required in one state to stay under 1,000ft.

    If it's above that (or even double/triple) he could make some arguments regarding accuracy. No idea what judge would view a 500ft LIDAR ticket the same as 2500ft. People here act as if it's completely irrelevant, only because they want to see everyone lose.
    Which the judge is under no obligation to listen to, much less consider in his/her decision because it is not a legal requirement. Could they? Sure. Are they likely to? I wouldn't put money on it.

    Until the legislature makes it a requirement, it is for all purposes legally irrelevant. I believe if someone does a crime, they should do the time. At the same time, I fully support someone's right to make the state prove its case.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    You can teach ignorant but you can't fix stupid!
    Yeah. I don't know why I keep letting myself get dragged into the mud.

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