Dependent Child Wants to be Emancipated

[texas girl]

Hi - I have a few questions about a potential emancipation situation in the state of Texas:

Facts: 16 year old child. Living with parents currently, has not ever lived on their own and is not financially self-sufficient. Petition to become emancipated would be highly contingent on support from a relative going forward (who could testify to that effect at emancipation hearing).

Reasoning for emancipation petition would be: parents are negligent to the point of being reckless. Failing marriage for its entirety and kids have been the victims. Severe, severe chronic mental problems with parents but no recognition of them or desire to have them fixed. The child suffers from stockholm syndrome due to having being systematically cut off and completely ISOLATED from all contact with peers and/or adult family friends, mentors, or community members. Parents are more preoccupied with work and/or selves and think everything is a-okay as long as they are in complete control. Control is the keyword here. Child's grades have dropped significantly - which is at odds with child's potential to perform and test scores - and child was bullied at school. Parents have literally not known of anything going on in child's life, from grades to bullying or anything, until discovered by a relative. Kid could have literally walked in with a broken leg and as long as the parents didn't have to bother, they wouldn't have given a damn.... this scenario was repeated with elder sibling, but elder sibling was smart (maturity-wise) and got out - not without significant damage, but got out. All kinds of abuse except sexual have happened, but the elder child would not be able to testify to that as it is from more than two years ago, which I believe is not admissible in court hearings of this type. In any case, domestic violence definitely exists, although with second child the physical manifestation has become virtually non-existent and is mostly controlled, steady coercion that is not resisted because all parties have just settled into this "normal."

Options considered including getting third party custody, from whatever research I have been able to do on my own this is not an option as I (the relative) don't have standing - there is no ongoing divorce case, and I have not lived with the child for 6 months no longer than 90 days ago as is the requirement here. So now we would like to try the avenue of the child filing for emancipation on their own, with backup and support for them from us.

If not being able to leave the house due to threatened and seemingly imminent mental, emotional, and physical threats to self and others in the house from parents is the mitigating factor, can it help explain why - despite having no driver's license, job, or independent living situation - the child should still be able to petition for and get emancipation? Can having a few months to stay with and being provided for by family to get on their own feet, plus backup help anytime necessary, be enough to show that even though the kid hasn't been independent so far, they will easily become so if allowed to be? If the child doesn't follow through with filing for emancipation - we are trying to persuade them that we will be there for the kid and help him, he needs to stand on his own two feet and get his life in order - is there any way we can get this issue to court anyway and request that we be granted third-party custody? We want to help, it just doesn't seem possible with all the legal mumbo-jumbo.... thanks so much, sorry for length.

[aaron]

If a child is being neglected, the child (or somebody on the child's behalf) can contact protective services to investigate the home.

[aardvarc]

Hi - I have a few questions about a potential emancipation situation in the state of Texas:

Facts: 16 year old child. Living with parents currently, has not ever lived on their own and is not financially self-sufficient. Petition to become emancipated would be highly contingent on support from a relative going forward (who could testify to that effect at emancipation hearing).

Potential for emancipation will end right there.

Emancipation means that the minor can SHOW the court, from a documented history, the ability to be 100% SELF supporting. If she's needing support from other sources, she is NOT self-sufficient and will not qualify for emancipation.

Reasoning for emancipation petition would be: parents are negligent to the point of being reckless.

That may be grounds for CPS to investigate or to remove the minor from the home, but has no bearing on the elements required for emancipation, as outlined above.

Failing marriage for its entirety and kids have been the victims. Severe, severe chronic mental problems with parents but no recognition of them or desire to have them fixed. The child suffers from stockholm syndrome due to having being systematically cut off and completely ISOLATED from all contact with peers and/or adult family friends, mentors, or community members. Parents are more preoccupied with work and/or selves and think everything is a-okay as long as they are in complete control. Control is the keyword here. Child's grades have dropped significantly - which is at odds with child's potential to perform and test scores - and child was bullied at school. Parents have literally not known of anything going on in child's life, from grades to bullying or anything, until discovered by a relative. Kid could have literally walked in with a broken leg and as long as the parents didn't have to bother, they wouldn't have given a damn.... this scenario was repeated with elder sibling, but elder sibling was smart (maturity-wise) and got out - not without significant damage, but got out.

From the government's point of view, all crappy parenting to be sure, but not likely grounds for removal. Sadly, parents are allowed to be crappy parents, including emotionally devoid regarding their children. The standards required for parenting before an outer forces of government (ie courts or law enforcement) will intervene generally don't occur until there is physical neglect (ie child is malnourished), is in wreched environment (ie human or animal feces, dead animals, filth piled to the ceiling, etc.), or physical abuse (ie injury). Even the worst piss-poor parenting, if at least one of the above elements isn't included, won't usually garner intervention. In other words, most children have to survive the shortcomings of their parents, unless there is evidence to convice a court that physical abuse or neglect has occurred or is imminent.

All kinds of abuse except sexual have happened, but the elder child would not be able to testify to that as it is from more than two years ago, which I believe is not admissible in court hearings of this type.

In a child neglect or abuse case, the rules are a bit boader - but the issue becomes one of reporting, and proof. An incident from two years ago? Not likely to have any impact unless there is some documentation - such as medical records, to back up one of the considered types of abuse from above. Mental abuse alone isn't going to cut it.

In any case, domestic violence definitely exists,

Documented? Calls to police? Police reports? Was child services involved?

Options considered including getting third party custody, from whatever research I have been able to do on my own this is not an option as I (the relative) don't have standing - there is no ongoing divorce case, and I have not lived with the child for 6 months no longer than 90 days ago as is the requirement here.

Even if you had standing, which you don't, still need to go back to the EVIDENCE that would be presented to the court. If there is EVIDENCE of the applicable types of abuse, the state can remove the minors from the situation even if there ish no potential relative available, with or without standing.

So now we would like to try the avenue of the child filing for emancipation on their own, with backup and support for them from us.

That's not emancipation.

If not being able to leave the house due to threatened and seemingly imminent mental, emotional, and physical threats to self and others in the house from parents is the mitigating factor, can it help explain why - despite having no driver's license, job, or independent living situation - the child should still be able to petition for and get emancipation?

No. Emancipation isn't a ticket out of negligent or abusive households. That's not its purpose. Its purpose is to provide legal support for those minors who have already ESTABLISHED themselves as being self supportive, and need the legal ability to do things like sign leases, have checking accounts, etc. in order to continue to support themselves. If neglect or abuse is the issue, then the avenues to address those issues is via child protective services.

Can having a few months to stay with and being provided for by family to get on their own feet, plus backup help anytime necessary, be enough to show that even though the kid hasn't been independent so far, they will easily become so if allowed to be?

No. The child need to already BE living independently before the court will entertain a petition for emancipation. And the child needs permission of the parents to leave and establish that independence.

If the child doesn't follow through with filing for emancipation - we are trying to persuade them that we will be there for the kid and help him, he needs to stand on his own two feet and get his life in order - is there any way we can get this issue to court anyway and request that we be granted third-party custody?

Not without standing. The exception may be if CPS or the courts find that the parents are "unfit" - which can't and won't happen until and unless there is an investigation by CPS that gets referred to the courts.

We want to help, it just doesn't seem possible with all the legal mumbo-jumbo.... thanks so much, sorry for length.

It's difficult for a reason. Parents in our system of law are deemed to be in control of how well or poorly they parent their children UNTIL there is evidence grave enough for the state (ie courts and/or law enforcement) to intervene. It's MEANT to be hard to remove children from their parents. And unless the parents are going to willingly allow their child to reside elsewhere, the only way to have their parental rights over their children over-riden such that the child can live elsewhere, it MUST include law enforcement documentation and/or intervention from child protective services. As outside third parties charged with enforcement of the law and oversight of child welfare, unless THEY find issues for the state to act upon, no action can be expected. But the civil courts are not going to support your attempts to remove the minors from their parents, at least not without some findings from the state FIRST, which MAY in effect give you a form of standing (ie to have the children placed with you if the parents are found unfit).

[texas girl]

Unfortunately, the child is too brainwashed to do this on their own. We are hesitant to compromise at least physical safety of the child that is there to some extent by getting CPS/ foster care involved.

If emancipation is not an option, are there any other strategies we could use that would not involve CPS? We really want to leave them out of this....

[aardvarc]

No, there's not. You have NO standing to interfere - THEY do. I really IS that simple. If there are minors being abused, THEY are the avenue to address it.

Even if you HAD standing to seek custody, the court isn't going to remove children from their legal parents without investigation and recommendation from CPS. CPS needs to be involved. And whoa to the person who brings an issue before the court alleging abuse of any kind and hasn't contacted CPS, because that'll be the FIRST question the judge asks "what was the result of the CPS investigation when you notified them?". You do NOT want to be a person standing in front of a judge complaining about abuse, and then tell the judge you never reported it to the proper authorities. That alone is enough to stop a judge from hearing ANYTHING else you say afterwards. Call CPS.

[texas girl]

Okay, thanks.

At what age can the child decide on their own to go live elsewhere, and it is legal - not kidnapping, etc?

So far, the domestic violence has been very cleverly hidden. (Hence the isolation...) But, if domestic violence can be documented and proven, then one- does it simply have to be shown as occurring in the child's environment, or does it have to be shown as happening against the child? Two - will CPS be involved, or if the third party is willing to take the child, can the child be given over to them temporarily until a permanent legal decision is made? Will this temporary custody decision hinge on whether the party is out-of-state? And if the domestic violence occurs against the third party, does this strip them of their rights to custody, even temporary, unless and until the courts clear up the issue and make sure the third party is not at fault in any way as well? Would the child then have to go to a fourth party, so to speak?

[Dogmatique]

18.

They don't get to decide where they want to live.

If you're out of state, how exactly do you know what's happening in the home?

[aardvarc]

At what age can the child decide on their own to go live elsewhere, and it is legal - not kidnapping, etc?

At 18, when they are no longer a minor. Until then, they live where their parents tell or allow them to live (ie with other people).

So far, the domestic violence has been very cleverly hidden. (Hence the isolation...) But, if domestic violence can be documented and proven, then one- does it simply have to be shown as occurring in the child's environment, or does it have to be shown as happening against the child?

It doesn't have to occur TO the child (which would technically be child abuse), but before domestic violence will impact potential removal of a minor from their parents, the domestic violence generally must occur in the presence of the child, AND, there must have been a case before the court such that child protective services/courts may be able to remove the child if FUTURE violence occurs (Google the term "failure to protect").

Two - will CPS be involved, or if the third party is willing to take the child, can the child be given over to them temporarily until a permanent legal decision is made?

Yes, CPS has the ability to place the child temporarily while the courts and CPS sort out what has happened and a potential plan going forward. It's important to understand that even IF removal were to occur, the FIRST priority of CPS will be to create a case plan which would resolve with the REUNITING of the child with the parents. If the parents work that case plan, they can anticipate having the child returned (things like DV counseling, if DV is shown to be part of the problem, drug/alcohol counseling if appropriate, anger management, or other improvements the court may call for). Only when such a case plan shows lack of progress or blatant disregard for the plan will the goal change from one of reuniting the child with one or both parents to CPS seeking to terminate parental rights and place the child elsewhere. (Remember what I said above; it's hard to remove children from parents, and the parents will be given every opportunity to alter the "big three" issues as I outlined before the child will be ultimately removed, permanently, from them.

Will this temporary custody decision hinge on whether the party is out-of-state?

Greatly. If you are out of state, you can anticipate right now that the child will not be placed with you, even on a temporary basis. Family law is dealt with on the basis of state law. The agencies involved only have jurisdiction to operate within the state where the child is residing. Thus, they will not send the child out of their own reach, by sending them out of state where they would loose ability to guide, control, monitor, or otherwise be involved in the case.

And if the domestic violence occurs against the third party, does this strip them of their rights to custody, even temporary, unless and until the courts clear up the issue and make sure the third party is not at fault in any way as well?

The party that is the victim of domestic violence doesn't get penalized by removal of the children UNLESS that domestic violence is being worked throught the criminal courts AND the victim willfully exposes the child to the perpetrator of that violence against the order of the court (goes back to "failure to protect"). For example, dad hits mom, neighbors call the police, dad gets arrested and the court orders no contact until the criminal case is resolved. Mom then lets dad back into the house. Now mom has failed to protect the child, and the child can be removed from mom's care, as this action on her part is evidence to the court that mom is MORE interested in having a potential (since he's not convicted yet) abuser around than in protecting her child(ren) from him. Same applies after a conviction if there is a permanent restraining or no contact order in place. Again, even this doesn't necessarily mean the removal would be permanent, but courts have GREAT dislike for parents who knowingly and willfully expose their children to violence when they've already been given "fair warning" - and failure to protect in DV cases is a MAJOR ultimate cause of many removals. Courts are ok with adults who want to make the decision to live with an abuser, but not so with those who expose their children, who don't HAVE a choice, to that sort of thing. As in ALL things, documentation and involvement of the courts is the key. No documentation? No issue. No courts or CPS? No action.

Would the child then have to go to a fourth party, so to speak?

In-state family is generally the first choice, especially for temporary issues (which almost all cases are considered, pending how the parents react to their case plan). If in-state family isn't available, then temp foster care or group care is the next choice. If the case turns out to be one where the children cannot be returned to their parents, then again family becomes the first choice, up to and including adoption of the children by family, whether in or out of state (obviously in state being easier and faster). If that's not an option, then permanent placement with an in-state foster home becomes the next option (given the ages of the children involved, many will already age-out of the sytem by the time all of these processes take place). In some areas of some states, there are programs in place that have a "halfway house" type setup for teens who are approaching the age of majority where they are given some levels of support, without there being a specified guardian so long as they follow their own case plan.

Foster homes can often have a big advantage over other family members, because once a child is taken BY the state, they have a duty to ensure certain levels of functionality and protection are in place before they'll release the child into someone else's care. For example, foster homes are inspected, licensed, have to complete CPR training, etc. - things most aunts and uncles, grandparents, and other families typically don't have working in their favor. In the eyes of the state, "love" isn't enough. The best way to help increase potential for a minor removed from parents to be placed with other family is for those hopeful family members to get up to the same "snuff". Best way to do that is check out the requirements for being a foster parent in the state in question, and meeting the requirements (take a CPR/first aid class, make sure your pool can be secured, make sure no one in the residence has a criminal history, especially of crimes involving chilrden, drugs, etc.), that pets are properly vaccinated etc etc. It's the STATE will will bear some of the heat if they release a child to a party who later abuses or neglects them or exposes them to violent people etc - so the state is going to get all up on the business of those seeking to gain that guardianship.

IF the children are removed, and cannot be reunited with parents, (and it won't usually be a sudden surprise, they'll usually give family plenty of "heads up" that things aren't looking good for reunion), THEN it's time to think about a consult with an adoption attorney to get things lined up to seek to become the child's legal guardian.

It's not a quick process, and permanent removal of the child from the parents is a last step when other efforts have failed.


Here's the bottom line: if the child is being abused or neglected, someone needs to contact CPS. Either the minor herself can, or you can, or anyone else can. Keep in mind that 90% of what you've described here isn't going to be actional abuse as far as authorities are concerned. Go back to the "big three" - neglect, living conditions, physical abuse. That's what gets action. Control issues aren't issues - parents are supposed to be in control, and courts will support that even if the control may be outrageous - UNLESS it is somehow directly related to ....neglect...living conditions...physical abuse. EVERY teenager in the world thinks they are abused. What THEY consider abuse and what you consider abusive behavior (note that there's a HUGE difference between what is abusIVE and what is ABUSE - most behavior that gets labeled as "abusive" is perfectly legal unless....the big 3 again), and even what they psychiatric community consider abuse versus what LEGALLY constitutes actionable abuse are often vastly different.