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  1. #1
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    Apr 2012
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    Default Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket if the Officer Forgets to Return Your License

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
    I got a ticket for allegedly driving @ 85mph in a 65mph posted highway. The CHP officer who wrote the ticket said he used a TruSpeed 20/20 LIDAR (http://www.lasertech.com/TruSpeed-Laser-Speed-Gun.aspx) to make the measurement. I think I was driving @ 65mph on the left lane, and he had lit up a nearby car in my right lane instead when he tried to hit me with the LIDAR from the right entrance ramp.
    This is apparent from the fact that after I crossed over and stopped, he verbally asked me whether I noticed that two cars behind me had to slam on their brakes when I was crossing over to the right lane (if they were not going faster than me, they would not have to slam on their brakes when I entered their lanes).
    But the most interesting thing is that after he stopped and gave me the ticket he forgot to return my driver's license -as he is required by law to have done. I noticed after a full 12 hours that my driver's license was missing. Then I called CHP and reported the mishandling by the officer. Only after that he called me and left me a message (which I still have) admitting to the error in not returning my driver's license after the stop, and that he made the mistake because "it all happened so fast" (his words on the voicemail recording). Late that day he mailed me my driver's license. After that I called CHP again to file a complaint of misconduct against that officer -which is now going through an internal investigation.
    Question is, how can I make a case for dismissing my citation using this incident as evidence that the officer was not paying attention or was negligent in his duties at that time -and hence was likely not really paying attention to which car he was lighting up with his LIDAR?
    I would like to hear if anybody has had experience in arguing (and winning) a case like this, or any advice on how to plead the right way to maximize the chances of winning in this case.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,901

    Default Re: Officer Made Errors During Traffic Stop -LIDAR 85 in 65mph on California Hwy

    Sorry, there's not a prayer of a chance your version of the story holds water.

    First, the cop is free to pull you over even if others are going faster. Second, cutting people off, even if they aren't going faster than you can certainly cause a panic reaction of them slamming on the brakes. The failure to return your license means squat.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
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    2

    Default Re: Officer Made Errors During Traffic Stop -LIDAR 85 in 65mph on California Hwy

    @flyingron, This is what happens when you reply without reading. So here again... s-l-o-w-l-y...
    Of course the cop can pull me over if others are speeding as well.
    But since I was not speeding, AND he was using a laser-based LIDAR gun as his sole method of determining if I was speeding from a location on my right, AND other cars were going faster than me by his own admission on my right (hence between him and his location), AND he was not paying attention as evidenced by his fundamental error in not returning my license, it is quite possible (indeed, it is obvious) he made the mistake because he happened to have got the LIDAR reflection from another car on my right in between me and him, when he *thought* he was aiming the LIDAR at me.
    Question is, how do I convince a judge of that?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
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    1,534

    Default Re: Officer Made Errors During Traffic Stop -LIDAR 85 in 65mph on California Hwy

    dbanerjee,

    I'll try to use words of not more than two syllables. Your arguments will not hold water. Nothing about forgetting to return your license shows anything "obvious" that the cop made errors in the use of the LIDAR. The two acts are not related in any way. That is like saying that because you forgot to turn your headlights off when you parked, it is obvious that you are prone of "fundamental error" and, therefore, ran the stop sign two blocks back. A simple oversight, which he admitted and took action to correct, is not "misconduct" on the part of the officer.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    409

    Default Re: Officer Made Errors During Traffic Stop -LIDAR 85 in 65mph on California Hwy

    LIDAR...how far? Anything over 1k ft you could argue it wasn't you. Having seen enough questions about California-based tickets here...it seems rare for that to happen. In other states, it is very common.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Officer Made Errors During Traffic Stop -LIDAR 85 in 65mph on California Hwy

    As mentioned, the fact that the officer neglected to return your license is entirely unrelated to your citation. You can try to argue it however you want, but you'd better have a "Plan B."

    What specific code section(s) were you cited for violating?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket if the Officer Forgets to Return Your License

    Quote Quoting dbanerjee
    View Post
    I think I was driving @ 65mph on the left lane, and he had lit up a nearby car in my right lane instead when he tried to hit me with the LIDAR from the right entrance ramp.
    This is apparent from the fact that after I crossed over and stopped, he verbally asked me whether I noticed that two cars behind me had to slam on their brakes when I was crossing over to the right lane. if they were not going faster than me, they would not have to slam on their brakes when I entered their lanes).
    The only thing I see that is “apparent” is that he had already got your speed before you even crossed in front of them and [slowed down to a] stop[ped]. Of course they're gonna slam on their breaks...

    In trying to analyze your way out of it, you simply missed the clear and specific “warning” the officer gave you about your illegal lane change!

    Give that one a rest, seriously... There is no way you can prove, even if you were psychic, that you knew which car the Lidar beam was hitting or which one he intended on hitting!

    Questions:

    1) Are you saying you saw the officer there looking in your direction and you made what seems to be an unsafe lane change?

    2) Are you saying you saw the officer there looking in your direction and you pulled over and stopped on your own?

    Quote Quoting dbanerjee
    View Post
    But the most interesting thing is that after he stopped and gave me the ticket he forgot to return my driver's license -as he is required by law to have done.
    Which law is that that requires him to return your license? And what penalty does this law mandate?

    Quote Quoting dbanerjee
    View Post
    Then I called CHP and reported the mishandling by the officer. Only after that he called me and left me a message (which I still have) admitting to the error in not returning my driver's license after the stop, and that he made the mistake because "it all happened so fast" (his words on the voicemail recording). Late that day he mailed me my driver's license. After that I called CHP again to file a complaint of misconduct against that officer -which is now going through an internal investigation.
    Does that really make the story anymore real than it really isn't? I'm asking seriously... (I don't know what the other members are thinking, but to me it sounds fake and made up)!

    Quote Quoting dbanerjee
    View Post
    Question is, how can I make a case for dismissing my citation using this incident as evidence that the officer was not paying attention or was negligent in his duties at that time -and hence was likely not really paying attention to which car he was lighting up with his LIDAR?
    Well, you can start by citing the law you mentioned above, then you cite the part that says the citation must be dismissed because the officer forgot to return your license.

    Quote Quoting dbanerjee
    View Post
    I would like to hear if anybody has had experience in arguing (and winning) a case like this, or any advice on how to plead the right way to maximize the chances of winning in this case.
    Don't hold your breath waiting! I can tell you it has never happened!





    Quote Quoting lostintime
    View Post
    LIDAR...how far? Anything over 1k ft you could argue it wasn't you. Having seen enough questions about California-based tickets here...it seems rare for that to happen. In other states, it is very common.
    FALSE!

    Invalid argument. It has no basis, not scientifically and certainly not legally! At least not in California. But I'll also dare you to find a state or a foreign country where that idiotic idea would get you out of a speeding citation!

    Nice try though... You keep trying to start these idiotic ideas about Lidar, and I will keep making you look like the fool that you are for trying!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    409

    Default Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket if the Officer Forgets to Return Your License

    New Jersey is 1000ft! Anything greater requires expert testimony! This isn't economically feasible for the state! The California LIDAR tickets are always under 1000ft as well! Although it's not law! Same with Washington! You can see on this forum!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket if the Officer Forgets to Return Your License

    Quote Quoting lostintime
    View Post
    New Jersey is 1000ft! Anything greater requires expert testimony! This isn't economically feasible for the state! The California LIDAR tickets are always under 1000ft as well! Although it's not law! Same with Washington! You can see on this forum!
    ^Garbage^... Nothing but your words and certainly, you'd be under the wrong impression thinking your word means much around here!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    409

    Default Re: Can You Beat a Speeding Ticket if the Officer Forgets to Return Your License

    The odds are skewed against you! Go tell the whole world they need to be in jail for speeding 0.01MPH over! That's your dream! Mr. Ripley!

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