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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    233

    Default Giving the Finger to Other Drivers

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of:FL

    .....display your middle finger to another driver whilst driving down the road? (No...the other driver ISN'T a LEO)

    Well I did recently, would I do it again? nope, it was an ignorant thing to do... what it was, was a quick reaction to the civilian driver that VERY NEARLY HIT ME when he over-shot his lane....I can count on one hand the number of times I've done it, and I've been driving a long time.... immediately afterwards wouldn't you know it, in my rear view mirror? no less than a state police barking his siren, he then pulled along side of me, he was EXTREMELY ANGRY, his face was very red, and everything happened so fast I can't remember all that was said but in the conversation (While we were side by side going down the road) one of the first things he screamed, and I mean this guy was screaming, he was really really angry, was "put on your seat belt"..it stunned me at first, because I HAD my seatbelt on, I just looked at him because for a split second I didn't know what he was talking about, so I pulled the shoulder strap up and said "I have my seatbelt on", he then proceded to tell me in a belittling fashion that he "better never see my finger come out of that window again" of course what do you say to someone WITH a gun, and who is Clearly agitated and who can conjure up almost anything and arrest you or at least rain on your day....I told him I wouldn't...I did mention I did that because the guy ALMOST ran into me, his reply? "I Don't care, you don't do that".....mind you now, this ENTIRE conversation is taking place on a busy 3 lane hwy going about 35-40 mph, I wanted to ask him WHY didn't he go after the guy that nearly hit me, common sense told me though in his current state of mind, it was obvious to me that he wasn't thinking rationally, so I didn't persue it, I just let him finish, he did, then he pulled in behind me, probably ran my tag and got my info, then followed me for a coupe miles then turned off....

    Afterwards I got to thinking, I guess thats why he never stopped me, he had no legal reason too; I hadn't broken ANY traffic laws at all, of course that doesn't mean anything.....but he never stopped me....maybe he was having a bad day, maybe not, but I want to tell you this guy was REALLY ANGRY....it's disturbing to me that there seem to be so many out there like that.....and THAT'S the reason I'm polite and non-challenging and I tell my loved-ones to do the same when engaged with the police, because you could very very easily loose your life, very quickly

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    CT & IL
    Posts
    5,273

    Default Re: Is It Against the Law To

    Why you are pleading your case roadside is a mystery ... if a cop pulls you over, you are getting a ticket almost all the time.

    The cop is wrong of course. I sometimes give cops who cut me off the finger .. its a road "salute"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Is It Against the Law To

    This is actually a first amendment question. Doesn't really have anything to do with traffic law.

    However, I will try to answer and keep this short and sweet.

    Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971), held that:
    "absent a more particularized and compelling reason for its actions, the State may not, consistently with the First and Fourteenth Amendments, make the simple public display here involved of this single four-letter expletive a criminal offense."
    A great deal of arguing in that case was if the display of an expletive is a "gesture" or was indeed "speech." The court found that the written words WERE, indeed, speech.

    Starting this argument again would just be time-consuming and would be the complete opposite of judicial economy.

    One could argue disorderly conduct, but if you were cited for this, you could argue with a federal case in which the defendant won summary judgment (with some help from the ACLU) when the court agreed that "flipping-off" a police officer was not, in and of itself, disorderly conduct.

    With that, I close with a quote from one of my personal favorite SC cases: "One of the prerogatives of American citizenship is the right to criticize public men and measures -- and that means not only informed and responsible criticism, but the freedom to speak foolishly and without moderation." Baumgartner v. US, 322 U. S. 665 (1944)

  4. #4

    Default Re: Is It Against the Law To

    Is it a gesture of speech, or an inappropriate hand signal? Appropriate hand signals are governed by statutes. Furthermore, do you want to go through the hassle of fighting a ticket for something silly like this even if it is a guaranteed win?

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/.../0316.157.html

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    1,588

    Default Re: Is It Against the Law To

    Personally? I would have been so far up this officer's watch commander's... well you know... with a microscope that he wouldn't be able to walk for SIX MONTHS.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    233

    Default Re: Is It Against the Law To

    Quote Quoting BrendanjKeegan
    View Post
    This is actually a first amendment question. Doesn't really have anything to do with traffic law.

    However, I will try to answer and keep this short and sweet.

    Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971), held that:

    A great deal of arguing in that case was if the display of an expletive is a "gesture" or was indeed "speech." The court found that the written words WERE, indeed, speech.

    Starting this argument again would just be time-consuming and would be the complete opposite of judicial economy.

    One could argue disorderly conduct, but if you were cited for this, you could argue with a federal case in which the defendant won summary judgment (with some help from the ACLU) when the court agreed that "flipping-off" a police officer was not, in and of itself, disorderly conduct.

    With that, I close with a quote from one of my personal favorite SC cases: "One of the prerogatives of American citizenship is the right to criticize public men and measures -- and that means not only informed and responsible criticism, but the freedom to speak foolishly and without moderation." Baumgartner v. US, 322 U. S. 665 (1944)
    ....just for the record, it wasn't a LEO I extended the middle digit too....

    Quote Quoting Speedy Gonzalez
    View Post
    Personally? I would have been so far up this officer's watch commander's... well you know... with a microscope that he wouldn't be able to walk for SIX MONTHS.

    Sure.....I thought about that....I also thought about the recourse, this guy didn't come across friendly at all, afterwards I thought, you know he could've really got his point across in a much more mature way than screaming, yelling and threatening me like he did, so taking his actions in to consideration, I'd say he was a vindictive individual also and one who would really enjoy retaliating to some kind of complaint by a citizen, so I just let it go......

    It's discouraging and sad that so many LEOs find it necessary to behave in a manner like this.....

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Is It Against the Law To

    I definitely agree to your last sentence. I know a couple of the LEOs on this forum would actually prefer that a complaint be filed. I distinctly remember a thread where they had said so.

    I honestly think you should go through the proper avenues of filing a complaint. After all, aren't they there to SERVE us? In my opinion, half of their job is customer service, half of their job is protection. They seem to forget about the first part all the time.

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