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  1. #1
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    Jan 2012
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    Default Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket, VC 22101(D)

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    I’ve been charged with an alleged violation of VC 22101(D) from a red light camera.

    Basically, here’s what happened. The intent had always been to travel straight through the intersection on a green light. However, instead (unintentionally), approaching the intersection, my vehicle was in the wrong lane (left turn only lane) which had a red arrow. Realizing this, and too late to safely stop in the left turn lane, measures were taken to switch over to the go-straight lane. Unfortunately, my vehicle entered the intersection from the left turn lane with the red light (which tripped the camera), even though my vehicle made it smoothly through the intersection, and ended up traveling straight on the green light.

    I’m thinking about fighting this ticket using the following:

    - This is a confusing intersection. The left turn lane my vehicle mistakenly found itself in turned into a left turn only lane, with poor notification. There was a sign a few hundred feet backing saying “thru traffic merge right”, but it appeared on the RIGHT hand side of the road. Well, I was in the left lane and didn’t see the sign. This sign should have been placed in the island on the left where I would have seen it. Thus, I was not properly notified of the lane situation up ahead.

    - Furthermore, California Penal Code provides that to be guilty of a crime, there must be intent or criminal negligence. Neither were present in this case.

    I’d appreciate feedback, or any other recommendations for fighting this ticket. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
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    I’ve been charged with an alleged violation of VC 22101(D) from a red light camera.
    Details please!!!!

    Was this the initial citation that was issued to you? And you actually received a citation in the mail and the section they cited you for was 22101(d)???

    If so, I would simply argue that 21455.5 only authorizes the use of and automated enforcement system for limit line violations and 22101(d) is not a limit line violation.

    I say "simply" but the actual argument may require quite a bit of legal wrangling!


    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
    View Post
    The intent had always been .... However, instead (unintentionally), approaching the intersection, my vehicle was in the wrong lane (left turn only lane) which had a red arrow.
    You can skip trying to use "intent" and "unintentionally" into your statements; first, your understanding that intent is required is not necessarily accurate at least not for a traffic infraction. Second, your vehicle was in the wrong lane because you (either intentionally or negligently) drove it there... But none of that is relevant!


    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
    View Post
    Unfortunately, my vehicle entered the intersection from the left turn lane with the red light (which tripped the camera), even though my vehicle made it smoothly through the intersection, and ended up traveling straight on the green light.
    Again, your vehicle entered the intersection from the left turn lane because you drove it through there... So whether that is "intent", "criminal negligence" or neither, it still wouldn't matter.


    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
    View Post
    - This is a confusing intersection. The left turn lane my vehicle mistakenly found itself in turned into a left turn only lane, with poor notification. There was a sign a few hundred feet backing saying “thru traffic merge right”, but it appeared on the RIGHT hand side of the road. Well, I was in the left lane and didn’t see the sign. This sign should have been placed in the island on the left where I would have seen it. Thus, I was not properly notified of the lane situation up ahead.
    You'll be disappointed to know that the "Thru Traffic Merge (Left)/Right" sign is "Optional" (page 2B-21 of the CA-MUTCD) and therefore, there is no requirement for early notification that you shouldn't be in the left lane if you intend on going straight. You would be better off with a "left turn lane is not marked properly" argument but even then, that would depend on HOW the lane is marked. So which intersection is this, in which city and which direction were you facing as you approached the lane?


    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
    View Post
    - Furthermore, California Penal Code provides that to be guilty of a crime, there must be intent or criminal negligence. Neither were present in this case.
    Yeah, I think we can skip that in this case!

  3. #3
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
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    Furthermore, California Penal Code provides that to be guilty of a crime, there must be intent or criminal negligence. Neither were present in this case.
    As a note, traffic violations are a "general intent" crime (as are MOST crimes in CA). As long as you performed the act in question even if you never intended to break the law, you can be guilty of the offense. Ref: (Hering (1999) 20 Cal.4th 440, 445; Sergent (1999) 19 Cal.4th 1206, 1215; Hood (1969) 1 Cal.3d 444, 456.)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    Thank you both for the prompt replies!

    - I was initially cited for 21453(c), as per the Notice to Appear letter that contains the photos of my vehicle. A few days after receiving this, I received a carbon copy form from an officer, indicating that my charge has been changed to 22101(d). As a side note, 21453(c) appears on my Courtesy Notice that I received AFTER I’d been notified that I’m being charged with 22101(d). Could there be a technicality violation here that I could use to dismiss my case? I still don’t even know what the correct bail amount is for 22101(d).

    -I’m hesitant to identify the specific intersection, but I’ll describe it and the markings in more detail:

    o It is a short stretch of road which starts off as two lanes. It then quickly branches off into four lanes before the intersection.
    o What was originally the left lane of the two lanes turns into a left turn only lane (the lane I was unintentionally in), and there’s another left turn lane that is created to the left of this as the road branches before the intersection.
    o What was originally the right lane of the two lanes is a go-straight lane (the one that had the sign on the right hand side), and there’s another go-straight lane created to the right of it as the road branches before the intersection.

    Markings for the turn lanes are as follows:

    o There are two left turn arrows on the pavement in the lane I was unintentionally in, separated by ~200 feet
    o There is a solid white line separating the left turn lanes from the go-straight lanes
    o There is also a sign posted immediately to the right of the red/yellow/green arrow turn signal, and on the same horizontal pole, indicating that the inside turn lane can make a U turn or a left, and that the outside turn lane can turn left.

    Thank you both again for your help… any further thoughts as to how to fight this are much appreciated.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    You committed a traffic offense at the point you changed lanes over the limit line. Illegal/improper lane change or changing lanes in an intersection come to mind. i believe the red light ticket is 0 points. I would pay it and run.

  6. #6
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    California
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    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    The charges you will have to answer for will be read to you at arraignment. It seems as if you received notice of the correction within plenty of time, so I doubt that will be an issue.

    It seems that if you went straight in violation of the signs and/or markings for a left turn only, that you would indeed be potentially guilty of 22101(d). I am not sure that there is much that you can argue from the technical standpoint, though you can always force the state to articulate how they identified YOU as the driver of the vehicle. If the photo of the driver is not clearly and definitively you, then you might be able to argue reasonable doubt.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    I am not sure that there is much that you can argue from the technical standpoint....
    I agree, my bad...

    I should also retract what I stater here:


    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    If so, I would simply argue that 21455.5 only authorizes the use of and automated enforcement system for limit line violations and 22101(d) is not a limit line violation.

    I say "simply" but the actual argument may require quite a bit of legal wrangling!
    I went with the wrong idea and I should have known better... Pursuant to VC 40518, the can indeed issue a 22101(d) off of an automated enforcement system.


    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
    View Post
    - I was initially cited for 21453(c), as per the Notice to Appear letter that contains the photos of my vehicle. A few days after receiving this, I received a carbon copy form from an officer, indicating that my charge has been changed to 22101(d). As a side note, 21453(c) appears on my Courtesy Notice that I received AFTER I’d been notified that I’m being charged with 22101(d). Could there be a technicality violation here that I could use to dismiss my case? I still don’t even know what the correct bail amount is for 22101(d).

    -I’m hesitant to identify the specific intersection, but I’ll describe it and the markings in more detail:

    o It is a short stretch of road which starts off as two lanes. It then quickly branches off into four lanes before the intersection.
    o What was originally the left lane of the two lanes turns into a left turn only lane (the lane I was unintentionally in), and there’s another left turn lane that is created to the left of this as the road branches before the intersection.
    o What was originally the right lane of the two lanes is a go-straight lane (the one that had the sign on the right hand side), and there’s another go-straight lane created to the right of it as the road branches before the intersection.

    Markings for the turn lanes are as follows:

    o There are two left turn arrows on the pavement in the lane I was unintentionally in, separated by ~200 feet
    o There is a solid white line separating the left turn lanes from the go-straight lanes
    o There is also a sign posted immediately to the right of the red/yellow/green arrow turn signal, and on the same horizontal pole, indicating that the inside turn lane can make a U turn or a left, and that the outside turn lane can turn left.

    Thank you both again for your help… any further thoughts as to how to fight this are much appreciated.
    I don't know if I can say anything that would add much to Carl's reply.

    With this being a red light camera violation, and without knowing a locale/municipality, it would be difficult to offer much more than just general advice!

    Good luck!

  8. #8
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    Aug 2011
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    South-Central Cali
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    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
    View Post
    any further thoughts as to how to fight this are much appreciated.
    Call the court to confirm whether their system has updated to the 22101(d).

    Without the exact intersection/city (google maps link would be good), it's hard to offer any defenses. Sorry, despite your efforts, parsing/visualizing the text description takes way too much time.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    Quote Quoting NotGuiltyCitizen
    View Post
    I still don’t even know what the correct bail amount is for 22101(d).
    My rule for estimating bail is quadruple the base fine (takes care of the $28 assessment for every $10 in fine plus 20% of base fine assessment) and add $70 ("court security fee" and something else which adds up to a flat $70) to get in the neighborhood (some counties charge a few dollars more, some a few dollars less based on various fees they can add). 22101(d) has a base fine of $35, which comes out to being about $210. In comparison, 21453(c) has a base fine of $100, which means that the total fine comes out to somewhat in the neighborhood of $470.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    9

    Default Re: Fighting California 22101(D) from Red Light Camera

    Well, I guess since I'm on the verge of just paying the fine at this point anyway... there's no harm in disclosing the intersection in a last ditch effort to formulate some sort of legal defense.

    Go to "S Melrose Dr and Hacienda Ct, Vista, CA" in Google Earth. The intersection is the one just North of the point where Google Earth points to. My vehicle traveled through the intersection from East to West.

    As a quick recap, I entered the intersection from the outside left turn only lane (had red arrow), and smoothly went straight through the intersection (on a green light). You can see how this intersection, and the road immediately to the East approaching the intersection, are confusing in the way they branch out into four lanes. Before the road branched, I was in the left lane, which turned into the outside left turn only lane.

    Hopefully this info will allow you guys to come up with some awesome legal defense to help me!

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