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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Speedy, thank you very much for your help to this point.

    Yes you are correct, the only stop sign I am aware of on Washington street is at the very end on 27th Ave where you must either turn left or right on 27th from Washington. That is miles from where I was stopped or from the intersection in question.

    I entered Washington street from Columbia Drive. I work in Pasco (a neighboring city) and came in to Kennewick by driving south over the Cable Bridge. At the Kennewick end of the Cable Bridge I took the free right turn lane on to Columbia Drive heading west - no signal or stop sign for that lane. From Columbia Drive I turned left on to Washington street at the traffic signal there. I don't remember for sure, but I assume at that time of day I probably waited at that light until there was a green arrow to turn left. At that time of day (4:45 p.m.) there is an endless stream of eastbound traffic on Columbia Drive so I would have most likely had to wait for the arrow but again I am not sure. Now heading South on Washington, the first traffic signal I come to is at 1st ave which is where the officer is saying I "ran the stop sign." I did not have to stop for that light as it was green for me so I continued south. As I neared the Red Apple store (which is at the NW corner of 10th and Washington) I noticed an officer coming up behind me very quickly weaving in and out of traffic behind me. I pulled over to let him pass and he pulled in behind me. Once I realized he was stopping me I pulled in to the Red Apple parking lot so we weren't blocking traffic. So the only stop sign I had driven through that afternoon/evening was in the parking lot leaving work and that is 8 miles away in a different city.

    I have one more quick question. I have read the information you linked to and completed the Discovery Request you also linked to (thank you very much for those links.) I would like to submit those to the court by certified mail as it would be difficult for me to do it in person in within the time allowed due to work. I would separately send one copy to the Court Clerk for filing and one copy to the Prosecutor, correct? Should they be identical copies, or should I somehow note on the Clerk's copy that it is to file? The little card they sent me with my hearing date is extremely vague.

    Thank you again for your help. You have been great.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    238

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Certified Mail & Return Receipt Requested.
    One copy to the court clerk for filing with the court.
    One copy to the Prosecuting Attorney so they can meet your discovery request.
    I include a short note/letter to each on what they were for.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    1,588

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Quote Quoting lurkertom
    View Post
    Certified Mail & Return Receipt Requested.
    One copy to the court clerk for filing with the court.
    One copy to the Prosecuting Attorney so they can meet your discovery request.
    I include a short note/letter to each on what they were for.
    Yup, and keep the original for yourself and bring it to court.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    I just today got the discovery. Here it is scanned.

    First, the ticket in question



    Now the two page discovery





    There are so many things wrong with his statement I don't even know where to start. But here are a few:

    1. High rate of speed" on Washington at 16:48??? I would be lucky to break 20 or 25 mph.
    2. I still don't know where he was and it doesn't say. If he "Cleared the intersection and observed the traffic light turn red" then does that mean he was in front of me? If so, why did he have to "turn around" to contact me? He raced up to me from a long way back and didn't catch up to me for 10 blocks.
    3. Note that the narrative says he cited me for a stop light but the ticket is for a stop sign, which doesn't exist at that intersection.

    Anyway, any help or suggestions that anyone can offer me would be greatly appreciated and thanks again.

    Pat

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    "Your Honor, I move to suppress the officer's statement, as it clearly pertains to a 'stop light' infraction (RCW 46.61.055), while the ticket was written for a 'stop sign' infraction (RCW 46.61.200). I further move for dismissal due to lack of evidence."

    Barry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Is this a pretty sure thing? Do you all feel pretty confident that I will be able to get out of this? I will need to take time off work to fight this and that will be significantly more financial expense for me than the cost of paying this ticket. I want to fight it because right is right and I know I didn't commit the offense. But if the Judge says the officer made a simple mistake and the citation still stands (or something like that) I will just save myself the effort now and pay the $124. So to the people that have done this or watched these types of things in court, what is your opinion? Is this a pretty sure thing? 50/50?

    Thanks again

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    I would say this has a 99% success rate. If there's a prosecutor and he amends the ticket, I would say you still have a 95% success rate. But he would need to amend the ticket to lose that 4%.

    Use Barry's motion. Except I might change it to (don't give away the statute for the prosecutor...make them look it up):
    "Your Honor, I move to suppress the officer's statement, as it is the wrong statute. The statute in question states 'It is unlawful for any person operating any vehicle when entering any intersection determined, designated, and bearing the required sign to fail and neglect to bring the vehicle to a complete stop before entering the intersection.' There is no such sign at this intersection. I further move for dismissal due to lack of evidence."

    If a prosecutor objects and amends the citation, then I would object saying "Your honor, The prosecutor, as a trained professional, should have been reasonably aware of the officer's mistake and should have given ample notice to this defendant on the amendment of the charge. Without notice, I am unable to adequately prepare a defense. I object to any amendment of the infraction as it prejudices my rights."

    In which case, the Judge may say something to the effect that he will accept the amendment but will give you time (or a continuance) to prepare a defense. If he does accept the amendment, tell the judge that you are ready to continue with the hearing instead of taking the continuance. Thus, you won't have to go home and spend another day in court.

    After that, "Your honor, I move to dismiss as the officer did not state that I ENTERED the intersection when the light was red. He only states that I CONTINUED through the intersection, which is not prohibited by any law. Furthermore, he never gives his location in reference to my location."

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Well tomorrow is the big day. Any last minute tips anyone?

    I have to say I am pretty nervous, which I think is pretty stupid because the worst that can happen is they make me pay the ticket which is about the same $ as a tank of gas. Still, for some dumb reason I am nervous about this. My wife thinks I should have just mailed in payment right after I got it and forgot about the whole thing and maybe I should have.

    Still I am out for what's "right" here. Wish me luck!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Infraction not commited. Thanks to all for your help.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Congratulations! Care to elaborate? What did you end up saying? What did the prosecutor say (if there was one)? What did the judge say?

    Thanks for letting us know.

    Barry

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