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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    9

    Default Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington

    I was driving down the road when an officer raced in behind me and pulled me over. The officer was in a very bad mood and was obviously upset with me. He asked me if I knew why he stopped me and I said no. I do not know where he was sitting when he supposedly saw me as I never saw him. He took my information back to his car and several minutes later came back with a ticket. He tossed the ticket and my information in to my lap and rudely asked if I had any questions. I said no and he turned and walked away without saying anything else.

    At first I expected to see a speeding ticket as he said I was speeding but the ticket was for "46.61.200 FAIL TO STOP AT STOP SIGN."

    I have contested the ticket as I am convinced he mistook my car for someone else for several reasons. So long story short my defense was going to be mistaken identity. After googling the RCW though, it seems to be specifically for stop signs and the intersection in question has a traffic signal. RCW 46.61.200 is "Stop intersections other than arterial may be designated." The text of the code talks about "posted and maintained proper signs of the standard design adopted by the state department of transportation" and "and bearing the required sign" but does not talk about traffic signals at all. It seems traffic signals are in a completely different section. As the intersection he wrote on the ticket clearly has a traffic signal and not a stop sign, I wonder if that is a better defense than the mistaken identity.

    When I was stopped I was on my way home from work. No where between my job and where I was stopped are there any stop signs. They are all traffic signals. If it turns out RCW 46.61.200 has no application with traffic signals I intend to bring photos of the intersection to court. I do not have the officer's statement as I am sending that letter today. Is there anything else I should ask for?

    So if I do use that as my defense, will the judge just say "Well it is obvious the officer meant to say traffic signal and just made a simple mistake" or something to that effect? Or can RCW 46.61.200 also be applied to a traffic signal? Would I be better off sticking with my mistaken identity as he stopped me over a mile from this intersection in heavy traffic and probably just confused my car with someone else?

    Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions with this.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
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    1,588

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Read this first. Next, serve a proper discovery request on the prosecutor's office and file it with the court. Scan and post the results here after you redact any personal information.

    Out of curiosity, what is the address listed on the ticket for the location that the infraction allegedly occurred?

  3. #3
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    Jan 2012
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    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    There is not an address listed but an intersection. In the "At location ref trafficway" box it says It says "S Washington St and W 1st Avenue."

  4. #4
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    Snohomish, WA
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    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    I assume, due to the intersection search I came up with, that this was in Seattle proper, and you were stopped by one of Seattle's finest?

    What street were you driving on, and which direction? First (which is my assumption), or S. Washington?

    The nearest stop signs to this intersection are Occidental/Washington to the East, and James/Yesler to the North.

    Oh, and if indeed it shows up this way in the officer's statement (stop sign), do not inform the prosecutor. Wait until your court date and request a dismissal due to the fact that there is no stop sign at that intersection. The whole trick is to spring the officer's mistake on them at the hearing.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    This was actually in the city of Kennewick, in South East Washington.

    It was in the city limits and the ticket was issued by a Kennewick police officer.

    I was pulled over at 10th and Washington or about 3300 feet of 30 MPH roads from the intersection listed on the ticket. I was driving South on Washington and went through the listed intersection on a green light, but like I said I don't know where the officer was sitting or what direction he thinks I was going.

  6. #6
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    Mar 2010
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    Snohomish, WA
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    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Where did you enter S. Washington from? Was there a signal, a stop sign, or a driveway, possibly an alley? There ONLY stop sign ON S. Washington from Clover Island clear down to the other end at E 27th Ave is AT E 27th Ave. The only other stop signs in the whole area are along S. Washington and are on side streets.

    I wouldn't ask for a dismissal. I would ask that the judge find the infraction NOT COMMITTED.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Speedy, thank you very much for your help to this point.

    Yes you are correct, the only stop sign I am aware of on Washington street is at the very end on 27th Ave where you must either turn left or right on 27th from Washington. That is miles from where I was stopped or from the intersection in question.

    I entered Washington street from Columbia Drive. I work in Pasco (a neighboring city) and came in to Kennewick by driving south over the Cable Bridge. At the Kennewick end of the Cable Bridge I took the free right turn lane on to Columbia Drive heading west - no signal or stop sign for that lane. From Columbia Drive I turned left on to Washington street at the traffic signal there. I don't remember for sure, but I assume at that time of day I probably waited at that light until there was a green arrow to turn left. At that time of day (4:45 p.m.) there is an endless stream of eastbound traffic on Columbia Drive so I would have most likely had to wait for the arrow but again I am not sure. Now heading South on Washington, the first traffic signal I come to is at 1st ave which is where the officer is saying I "ran the stop sign." I did not have to stop for that light as it was green for me so I continued south. As I neared the Red Apple store (which is at the NW corner of 10th and Washington) I noticed an officer coming up behind me very quickly weaving in and out of traffic behind me. I pulled over to let him pass and he pulled in behind me. Once I realized he was stopping me I pulled in to the Red Apple parking lot so we weren't blocking traffic. So the only stop sign I had driven through that afternoon/evening was in the parking lot leaving work and that is 8 miles away in a different city.

    I have one more quick question. I have read the information you linked to and completed the Discovery Request you also linked to (thank you very much for those links.) I would like to submit those to the court by certified mail as it would be difficult for me to do it in person in within the time allowed due to work. I would separately send one copy to the Court Clerk for filing and one copy to the Prosecutor, correct? Should they be identical copies, or should I somehow note on the Clerk's copy that it is to file? The little card they sent me with my hearing date is extremely vague.

    Thank you again for your help. You have been great.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    238

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Certified Mail & Return Receipt Requested.
    One copy to the court clerk for filing with the court.
    One copy to the Prosecuting Attorney so they can meet your discovery request.
    I include a short note/letter to each on what they were for.

  9. #9
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    Mar 2010
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    Snohomish, WA
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    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    Quote Quoting lurkertom
    View Post
    Certified Mail & Return Receipt Requested.
    One copy to the court clerk for filing with the court.
    One copy to the Prosecuting Attorney so they can meet your discovery request.
    I include a short note/letter to each on what they were for.
    Yup, and keep the original for yourself and bring it to court.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    9

    Default Re: Stop Sign Violation at an Intersection with Traffic Signal

    I just today got the discovery. Here it is scanned.

    First, the ticket in question



    Now the two page discovery





    There are so many things wrong with his statement I don't even know where to start. But here are a few:

    1. High rate of speed" on Washington at 16:48??? I would be lucky to break 20 or 25 mph.
    2. I still don't know where he was and it doesn't say. If he "Cleared the intersection and observed the traffic light turn red" then does that mean he was in front of me? If so, why did he have to "turn around" to contact me? He raced up to me from a long way back and didn't catch up to me for 10 blocks.
    3. Note that the narrative says he cited me for a stop light but the ticket is for a stop sign, which doesn't exist at that intersection.

    Anyway, any help or suggestions that anyone can offer me would be greatly appreciated and thanks again.

    Pat

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