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  1. #1
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    Default What Defenses Work to Speeding Tickets, Speed > 100 MPH, VC 22348(B)

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    Hello All,

    I've been poring through the threads of other users of the site who have been cited for going 101mph in a 70 mph zone. It seems like the general consensus is that since it is generally accepted that radar has a 1 to 3 mph variance, there is a reasonable doubt that I was going less than 100mph, hence I am not guilty of the charge of violating VC 22348 [b]. However, I have not seen any of the OP's come back and say that this defense stood up in court and their case had been dismissed, or the charges were dropped to a VC 22349 instead. Does anyone know if this defense holds any water? Also, I wasn't able to figure out how to use findlaw.com to come up with any past cases where this defense had been used successfully. If there is some way to find some precedent, that'd heavily increase my chance of getting the case dismissed.

    Thanks!


    I've looked through the below threads, but couldn't post to them to get an update from the OP's because they have been marked Closed.
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115946
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53012
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121526
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54511
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72504
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75375
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115916
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113902
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121364
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120179
    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115768

    Oh, and one more thing, how do I check when was the last time I've done traffic school? I checked on the DMV site, and there are currently no points on my record, but it also doesn't show when was the last time I did traffic school. I think I might be on the cusp of 18-months, but am not sure. I know that 22348 is not eligible for traffic school, but if it gets reduced to a 22349, I can go!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    Quote Quoting dubq
    View Post
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    Hello All,
    The thread title says 22348(c) and yet your post says 22348(b)... So which is it?


    Quote Quoting dubq
    View Post
    I've been poring through the threads of other users of the site who have been cited for going 101mph in a 70 mph zone. It seems like the general consensus is that since it is generally accepted that radar has a 1 to 3 mph variance, there is a reasonable doubt that I was going less than 100mph, hence I am not guilty of the charge of violating VC 22348 [b]. However, I have not seen any of the OP's come back and say that this defense stood up in court and their case had been dismissed, or the charges were dropped to a VC 22349 instead. Does anyone know if this defense holds any water?
    I think you answered your own question... If not one thread was updated with a success story, it is likely that the defense is only "generally accepted" and it only works to please "the general consensus" on an online forum but it doesn't work in court.

    As for your comment about dropping it to a 22349, why would you think the officer, any officer, would cite a 22348 only to retract that in court and drop it to a 22349 instead?


    Quote Quoting dubq
    View Post
    Also, I wasn't able to figure out how to use findlaw.com to come up with any past cases where this defense had been used successfully. If there is some way to find some precedent, that'd heavily increase my chance of getting the case dismissed.
    Precedent, from a free website? You're not likely to find much, not even through a paid subscription simply because traffic infraction cases and trials aren't transcribed and published. So you'll have to look for one that went to appeal, but even then, you won't find much about 22348 cases and likely none that used that particular defense and succeeded!


    Quote Quoting dubq
    View Post
    Oh, and one more thing, how do I check when was the last time I've done traffic school? I checked on the DMV site, and there are currently no points on my record, but it also doesn't show when was the last time I did traffic school. I think I might be on the cusp of 18-months, but am not sure. I know that 22348 is not eligible for traffic school, but if it gets reduced to a 22349, I can go!
    Yeah, 22348 is a 2 point violation. Therefore it does not qualify for a dismissal subsequent to attendance of a traffic school course!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    First of all, does the ticket say 22348(c), or 22348(b)?

    Quote Quoting dubq
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    the general consensus is that since it is generally accepted that radar has a 1 to 3 mph variance, there is a reasonable doubt that I was going less than 100mph, hence I am not guilty of the charge of violating VC 22348 [b].
    Even if General Consensus himself walked into court and testified on your behalf, I doubt it would work. You'd need either the calibration certificate or the manufacturer's specification for the radar used -- and it has to say +/- 2 mph.

    Quote Quoting dubq
    View Post
    However, I have not seen any of the OP's come back and say that this defense stood up in court and their case had been dismissed, or the charges were dropped to a VC 22349 instead. Does anyone know if this defense holds any water? ... If there is some way to find some precedent, that'd heavily increase my chance of getting the case dismissed.
    If this defense stands up in court, the case would be dismissed. Once you go to trial, the charge cannot be amended to a 22349. It may be done before as part of a "plea deal", if the officer wishes, you agree, and the judge allows it.

    Quote Quoting dubq
    View Post
    Oh, and one more thing, how do I check when was the last time I've done traffic school?
    You probably remember the county/court your last citation came from...call them up.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    Quote Quoting quirkyquark
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    Even if General Consensus himself....
    Hahaaaa, I've never heard of him, but apparently, he's been in our midst for quite a while now!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    Trying to help out where I can (especially since Quirky saved me $480 earlier this month, and I can't swim in the deep end yet), I'd just like to note that it would be dropped down to CVC 22356, not CVC 22349, if it was reduced of course.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    Quote Quoting dubq
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    it is generally accepted that radar has a 1 to 3 mph variance
    The NHTSA/IACP standards (which all radar devices used in CA must conform to) specify a minimum accuracy of +1, -2 mph for stationary radar (i.e. cop car on the side of the road) and +/- 2 mph for moving mode radar (i.e. cop car chasing you/going the other way).

    If your speed was measured in moving mode (most radar citations aren't), this defense may have a chance. You'd need to do a TBD first and get the cop's statement to find out if he was stationary or moving.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    Precedent, from a free website? You're not likely to find much, not even through a paid subscription simply because traffic infraction cases and trials aren't transcribed and published. So you'll have to look for one that went to appeal, but even then, you won't find much about 22348 cases and likely none that used that particular defense and succeeded!
    Lexis used to have a free option to search case opinions and precedents (do they still offer this??)... google scholar is another free site.


    Also, most courthouses have a library that you can search one or several pay websites....plus they should have the annotated statues that can be useful.

    Most traffic cases are very limited regarding non-appealed cases.


    And the 1% error with some SMD are machine errors .. you may be able to hire an expert to testify that the actual error in the field is higher (but that will cost $$).

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    Quote Quoting davidmcbeth3
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    Lexis used to have a free option to search case opinions and precedents (do they still offer this??)
    LexisNexis Communities : Free case law search of the last 10 years of State & Federal Courts and the U.S. Supreme Court from 1781 to present.

    California Official Reports, by Lexis : ALL CA case law, for all time

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    Thanks for the help! Sorry for the original confusion, it is actually section B of 22348.

    I'll try to take a look at Lexis to see if I can find anything, but am not too hopeful, since it is Traffic Court after all!

    I've also PM'd all the OP's from the threads I listed out, to see if they can provide an update on their cases. Will keep this thread posted on anything that I hear back from them.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Ca: Vc 22348(C) - 101 in a 70mph Zone - What Defense Works

    Quote Quoting dubq
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    I'll try to take a look at Lexis to see if I can find anything, but am not too hopeful, since it is Traffic Court after all!
    What county? And was it the CHP who issued the citation? If so, you need to send them a discovery request ASAP asking for the officer's notes (front/back of ticket), radar/lidar calibration and maintenance records. That will tell if your margin-of-error argument is even feasible.

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