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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    Quote Quoting koutarou
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    Citation was issued at Green River Rd / Boulder Dr.
    City is Corona, CA.
    is that the location of violation as shown on the citation or is that where the officer got to you and you stopped???

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    Apart from any other issues with the survey, here's the BIGGIE: I don't see ANY justification for the 5-mph reduction from 50 mph.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    is that the location of violation as shown on the citation or is that where the officer got to you and you stopped???
    That's the location of where the cop was sitting with his radar. He issued the citation about 1 block down.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    Quote Quoting koutarou
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    That's the location of where the cop was sitting with his radar. He issued the citation about 1 block down.
    Both locations are included in the survey. Again, the survey makes NO EXPLICIT MENTION OF THE REASONS for the 5 mph reduction. Also, the critical speed should be 51 mph or higher (count down 15% of the total 110 vehicles = 16.5 = 17 from the top, brings you to an X in the 51 mph bin.)

    Do a TBD, this may be winnable if the judge actually reads it

  5. #15

    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    Quote Quoting quirkyquark
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    Both locations are included in the survey. Again, the survey makes NO EXPLICIT MENTION OF THE REASONS for the 5 mph reduction. Also, the critical speed should be 51 mph or higher (count down 15% of the total 110 vehicles = 16.5 = 17 from the top, brings you to an X in the 51 mph bin.)

    Do a TBD, this may be winnable if the judge actually reads it
    So I should do Trial by Declaration, and mention how the survey calls for a 5mph reduction from 51mph, but doesn't give a reason as to why?

    Could I even win with that? Because according to the cop's citation I was going 67mph, even with the judge taking 51mph as the max speed I'd still be going 16mph over according to the cop.

    Sorry, first time fighting a ticket.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    Quote Quoting koutarou
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    That's the location of where the cop was sitting with his radar. He issued the citation about 1 block down.
    I only ask because in your previous post you stated "the citation was issued at such and such location" and typically, that is miles from the location whee the violation occurred!

    Quote Quoting quirkyquark
    View Post
    Apart from any other issues with the survey, here's the BIGGIE: I don't see ANY justification for the 5-mph reduction from 50 mph.
    Oh, I see it, but they're too freaking lazy to write a single paragraph telling us what it is...

    Accident rate is @ 4 times the expected rate. (Now watch Quirky come up with some formula that says "no they can't do that")...

    Oh, and BTW, there goes the "speed related collisions" I was talking about elsewhere...


    Quote Quoting quirkyquark
    View Post
    Both locations are included in the survey. Again, the survey makes NO EXPLICIT MENTION OF THE REASONS for the 5 mph reduction. Also, the critical speed should be 51 mph or higher (count down 15% of the total 110 vehicles = 16.5 = 17 from the top, brings you to an X in the 51 mph bin.)
    They have it @ 50.7mph...

    Isn't that close enough for government work?

    Quote Quoting koutarou
    View Post
    So I should do Trial by Declaration, and mention how the survey calls for a 5mph reduction from 51mph, but doesn't give a reason as to why?

    Could I even win with that?
    Theoretically, yes, that is a valid analogy, and theoretically, you can win with that! You're supposed to win with that!

    Quote Quoting koutarou
    View Post
    Because according to the cop's citation I was going 67mph, even with the judge taking 51mph as the max speed I'd still be going 16mph over according to the cop.
    Well, the idea is... According to the law, if the speed limit is not justified by a current/valid E&T Survey, your speed or any other testimony the officer would like to present is inadmissible!

    No Testimony --> No Evidence --> No Case!

  7. #17
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    Accident rate is @ 4 times the expected rate. (Now watch Quirky come up with some formula that says "no they can't do that")...
    Quote Quoting quirkyquark
    View Post
    Here's the formula: (c*10^6)/(365*y*v*l),
    where:
    • c, y = total c accidents in y years
    • v = volume per day (vpd) or average daily traffic (ADT)
    • l = segment length in miles
    Cue Quirky: the math isn't on their side....plugging into our formula the # of accidents (5), the ADT (12,200) and the approx. length of Green River Rd. between Ridgeline Dr. W and E (0.93 mi) gives us THE accident rate of...0.6037 acc/mvm, which is close enough to 0.61.

    ^^^^ That is the official accident rate, which looks way below the expected value for any kind of road. Cannot justify the reduction. Additionally, the attached crash sheet itself shows that only ONE of the five accidents had a PCF of "Unsafe speed," which makes the effective rate ~ 0.12!

    Now, their "Accident Rate = 2.5" is probably accidents/year: 5 in 2 years = 2.5/year. As for that misleading label and its significance, we would have to ask Messrs. Libring and Espinoza's collective posteriors!

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    They have it @ 50.7mph...

    Isn't that close enough for government work?
    It is. I can't remember why I thought it significant.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    :O so much information. You guys are awesome.

    So... from what I've read so far, it looks to be in my favor? o.o

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    Quote Quoting koutarou
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    So... from what I've read so far, it looks to be in my favor? o.o
    Yes.....

  10. #20

    Default Re: Vc 22350, Downhill, Two Lanes, Multiple Motorcycle Cops

    So... just to make sure I'm doing this correctly. I write a check for the bail amount and mark the box for trial by declaration. Then mail it, and I'll get information about the TBD stuff later, which is when I submit my evidence / information?

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