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  1. #1
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    Nov 2011
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    Angry Can a Business Display Pictures and Names of Those That Stole Products

    My question involves defamation in the state of: Michigan

    Summary: Customers purchased products that were knowingly drawn against closed accounts at the time of purchase, which is a criminal offense if not for the fact that the payment was post dated making it a civil case (or so we were told), while others waited until just before payment would be processed to report their card used as lost or stolen and cancel their account, to avoid paying for the product. They were video recorded with cameras clearly marked and in full public view and with notice that they were being recorded. These are people that are not concerned about a civil judgment being ordered against them and bet that because of the time and expense involved that it will not be perused and even if awarded have little or no assets or credit to protect. They were all contacted on numerous occasions and all given opportunity to pay for the products but all refuse.

    My question is this – In Michigan, can a company use still shots of video to make a large banner displaying their photos and names to show honest customers justification for increased cost and to deter others from doing the same – in the same manner that some businesses publicly display checks that are found to be NSF, without being concerned of being sued for defamation, slander, or liable if transactions are documented by both signatures, account numbers and video evidence? A related question – for those that pictures are no longer available on the DVR but can be found easily on public social networks online – can those pictures be used? And finally can the banner read “Piece of Shi* list on top” while on bottom explain the P.O.S. list is what our regular customers call those that steal products and increase cost to honest customers”. What about also making the same available online?

    Sorry for the long read but I wanted to include as many details as may be necessary to avoid anyone having to ask for more – and thank you in advance for your advice and help.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2009
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    Default Re: In Michigan - Can a Business Display Pictures and Names of Those That Stole Produ

    OP, I have to ask.

    Are you TRYING to get sued?

    You absolutely CANNOT even vaguely hint that these customers have stolen anything unless the customers have been convicted of theft.

    You have remedies available to you. Use them. Don't buy trouble.

  3. #3
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    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: In Michigan - Can a Business Display Pictures and Names of Those That Stole Produ

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
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    OP, I have to ask.

    Are you TRYING to get sued?

    You absolutely CANNOT even vaguely hint that these customers have stolen anything unless the customers have been convicted of theft.

    You have remedies available to you. Use them. Don't buy trouble.


    So they can steal the product by paying with closed account and try to sue me for calling a duck a duck? Why can't I call somone that stole product on video a thief? They provided thier photo I.D. , their card to purchase and intended to steal the product by providing a canceled account. How can they sue me for telling the truth with evidence? Sorry - frustrating!! The civil remedy is one requiring additioanl cost of serving, filing, and locating ppl that will not appear, additional filing to determine assets if a judgement is awarded - another hearing they will not appear, etc , etc - they don't care - and an uncollectable judgement is little cosolation, while they enjoy use of the product knowing that going to a civil court is throwing good money after bad.

    However - what if instead of directly calling them thieves - i simply stated "these people are responsible for the increased cost of your product (with their photo and name)" if it's a matter or wording or linguistics, without calling them the thieves they are - I have no problem complying because the driver allowed them to post date payment, or wait to turn in the sale.

    I guess I don't get it - if I record somone beating up a blind nun with a tire iron and later say the guy assulted someone absent a criminal trial - he can sue me - go figure.

  4. #4
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: In Michigan - Can a Business Display Pictures and Names of Those That Stole Produ

    You can post whatever you want and, when you are sued, prove that your statements are true. Truth is an absolute defense to defamation, after all. Note, however, that when you accuse somebody of a crime that's going to be considered per se defamation, such that the burden of proof falls on you - to carry their case forward, they don't have to prove anything but that you made the statement.

    I suggest consulting your insurance agent and making sure that you have lots and lots of insurance that will extend to potential defamation claims. I expect that your insurance agent or its risk manager will suggest that you reconsider your approach or, if you're presently covered for defamation, possibly that you find a different insurance company for your coverage.

    If you want to promote something, sue them, win in court, then consider publicizing your unpaid judgments. I'm still not sure it's a good idea, as I'm not sure that other customers actually like that kind of display, but the accurate representation that "Joe Smith owes this store $200 and hasn't paid his judgment" would at least have the virtue of being unarguably, factually true.

  5. #5
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    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: In Michigan - Can a Business Display Pictures and Names of Those That Stole Produ

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    Truth is an absolute defense to defamation,........the burden of proof falls on you - to carry their case forward, they don't have to prove anything but that you made the statement.

    I suggest consulting your insurance agent and making sure that you have lots and lots of insurance that will extend to potential defamation claims.

    If you want to promote something, sue them, win in court, then consider publicizing your unpaid judgments.

    Would signed product receipts receipts, signed and dated payment vouchers, and video be enough proof? And related to proof - I can prove they took the product - but how do I prove their intent is to steal it if the payment card is later canseled and they refuse to provide a different one or pay for the product?

    It's a very small business and we don't have insurances to cover defamation - which is why i am doing reseach to limit our exposure to a lawsuit but also offer a deterant to others.

    What if I posted their pictures and names and posed a question without directly caling them thieves or saying they stole product? Eg "Ask these people why you are paying more to feed your kids" - btw the product is food, but i'm not sure if that makes a difference.

    I wish I had posted this question differently - maybe from their prospective - Can a company that I stole product from post my picture and name for public display if my payment was post dated making it a civil case?

  6. #6
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: In Michigan - Can a Business Display Pictures and Names of Those That Stole Produ

    If you proceed with your plan and they sue you, after you pay your lawyer thousands of dollars for your defense you can discuss with him whether your "product receipts receipts, signed and dated payment vouchers, and video be enough proof". I don't care to speculate.

    "It's a very small business and we don't have insurances to cover defamation" - then why do you think it would be a good idea to potentially bring on a ruinous defamation lawsuit?

    Changing the way you phrase the question doesn't change the answer. If a business posts your picture and accuses you of stealing, or implies that you're a thief, you can sue.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2011
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    Default Re: In Michigan - Can a Business Display Pictures and Names of Those That Stole Produ

    Thanks for the reply. I will call to price insurance, and an attorney to help with the wording and although I'd really like to call a thief a thief, don't want to reward the piece of garbage damages for doing so in the process. The idea actually originated from one of our regular customers and they said that there's no way they'd do the same even if they knew they could "get away with it" if it meant having their pictures displayed for others to see. Even if I can't accuse them of a crime - maybe just stating the facts - "these people ordered product for delivery, their payment was declined, and litigation is pending. We apologise if this results in higher prices for you and your family" will get the point across. Of course I will also file for civil damages - even though a hassle and likely end up with a stack of unpaid judgements - but I have to do something. Thanks again.

    (If anyone has a case to reference in Michigan that resulted in a decision - please post the link)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    238

    Default Re: In Michigan - Can a Business Display Pictures and Names of Those That Stole Produ

    Wow - Would it not be a simple thing (as in a policy) to require a deposit payment in the form of CASH when someone is ordering items? You seem to want to take out your frustration on all your customers after the fact by calling them thieves or considering them to be potential thieves. What you are asking is setting yourself up to get sued.

    It's no secret that retail fraud costs the consumer in the form of higher prices. Just make it harder for the dirt-bags by changing your ordering policies. Your honest customers already "get it".

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