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  1. #1

    Default Consequences of Fraudulent Dispute of Credit Card Charges to a Gambling Site

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: CA

    Hey law experts. Hopefully someone will be able to answer this....I've read hundreds of varying opinions

    Online gambling sites used third party vendors and essentially launder money into their casinos. For example, someone purchases 200.00 USD at slotsareus casino, the debit on your statement shows up as "gift4mark online" or "www.winauction.com" or "firestone adv" whatever it may be, it never actually shows up as "slotsareus casino." I have heard many people "chargeback" their debit / credit cards in these instances and are successful. However, if the bank does prove the individual did make these charges, is he / she even liable? The person in context never received any items from the vendors listed on their statement. They did nothing wrong disputing a charge that they never received....

    So, short version, when disputing an online gambling charge, and the casino used a third party vendor, how could you be in the wrong? How could you get in trouble? Is the bank at all responsible for letting these charges go through?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,482

    Default Re: Consequences of Fraudulent Dispute of Credit Card Charges to a Gambling Site

    You'll find that your credit card protections generally do not protect you against gambling charges even if they were legal ones in the US.
    Do not believe that the credit card companies are fooled by the shenanigans used to allow illegal online gambling. You might get away with it in on small occasion, but they'll catch on. If you're attempting to defraud the credit card company for goods or services you did indeed purchase, then yes you can be criminally liable.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Oklahoma
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    695

    Default Re: Consequences of Fraudulent Dispute of Credit Card Charges to a Gambling Site

    It is fraud because you did recieve services, to the tune of $200 from the casino. Nothing states that a casino, store, or other entity must charge you directly. It is actually fairly common for companies to use 3rd party vendors to process the transactions. Although the vendor may be listed on your statement, they are doing business for the casino as their authorized agent. Therefore, by defrauding the vendor you are defauding the casino, which gave you the money for play.

    How do people get away with it? Small chargeback amounts are generally written off because it is not worth the time/effort to track it down. ID theft is so rampant that companies will write off the losses on taxes. However, be assured (especially with casinos) that your account is going to be flagged. If you continue to do it you will face some tough questions. Also, your bank and credit card company are going to become suspicious if you have continuous charge backs.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Consequences of Fraudulent Dispute of Credit Card Charges to a Gambling Site

    Thanks for the responses.....I wasnt aware it was legal for online casinos to use third party vendors. Apparently in 2006 there was a law passed by Bush called the UGIEA that made it illegal for credit card companies to approve transactions for online casinos, thats why they use third party vendors....that in itself is laundering and illegal no?

    For example, say someone was to sign an affidavit from their bank that says they did not authorize transactions from this vendor(which was actually the casino) and never received goods or services, however, they did authorize a transaction for an online casino, but the online casino never showed up on their statement, the charge on the statement showed up as "beths beauthy supply." Isnt the casino committing fraud? If the bank does end up proving it was from an online casino, can the person who disputed end up in trouble? I dont see how they can when they technically signed something that was legitimate, they did not authorize a charge at a third party vendor and never received any goods or services...

    All in all I feel like it ends up a ethical and moral issue than a criminal one..

    I'm not saying I am disputing charges so please leave your snide comments to yourself......Its stri

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Default Re: Consequences of Fraudulent Dispute of Credit Card Charges to a Gambling Site

    Quote Quoting Thecuriousone
    View Post
    Isnt the casino committing fraud? If the bank does end up proving it was from an online casino, can the person who disputed end up in trouble?
    Yes, the casino is and if it gets large enough the Feds WILL go after them. You are probably not the only bank customer with such charges, so don't presume the bank doesn't know who the real "seller" is. That said, the biggest possible trouble you risk getting into if you dispute (unless you do this chronically) is having your bank close your card.

  6. #6

    Default Online Casinos and Disputes - Legal Consequences

    My question involves collection proceedings in the State of: CA

    I stole this from someone who posted it back in 2010 and never got a definitive answer, is anyone willing to help answer, as I am curious myself.......



    I'll just be completely honest and put it all out there. I have a gambling problem. I lost a couple hundred dollars playing online poker at one of the popular US poker sites. I feel I was unfairly taken.

    To explain in more detail, this particular instance involved two people who I knew were working together at a high stakes table I was at, but I couldn't prove it while the game was going on. When I checked the hand records, you could see it plain as day though. The two would play almost every hand together. When one had a "made" hand, the other, even if they had NOTHING, would raise the pot to help the other make more money. You could also see some evidence of them constantly funneling money to whichever one of them had fewer chips. Needless to say...I was royally pissed. I took the info and clearly pointed it out to the online poker room security, and to make a long story short...they just brushed me off! I guess since they got their rake on each hand they could care less. I asked them to refund my losses at that particular table, and well, I'm sure you can figure out what they said.

    So, now I want to get my money back. It looks like a thin line when it comes to the law and committing fraud, so before I did anything, I wanted to make sure I couldn't get in trouble with the law. I've done a bunch of research on the topic and read up on this topic on other forums and blogs (and even saw a video on youtube) about this stuff, so here is my plan:

    1) I went to the online casino and purchased my chips. When I got my credit card statement, it came back as some sort of web design company in Canada, instead of what the charges were for - online gambling. The charge amount was different than what I got credited for in the casino. The charge was for $800, and my credit card statement said $799.97.

    2) Based on my research, I found that the reason they did this is because of a bill called the UIGEA, which is now apparently US law. The UIGEA states that it is illegal for US banks to process online gambling transactions. In order to get around this, the online casinos essentially "launder" the money through a fake company that has setup a merchant account.

    3) When I went to the online casino, I only authorized them to charge my credit card, not this company that apparently sells web design services. So, on my credit card statement, I can legitimately (and I believe 100% truthfully) claim that I have no idea who this company is (because the name is different), have no idea what the charge is for (because this is saying I purchased web design services), and don't recognize the charge amount (because it is different). I have to sign an affidavit to that effect. I want to make absolutely certain that is not perjury, so I don't end up in federal pound me in the arse prison!

    4) When I report these charges as unauthorized transactions, I am almost certain the bank will find in my favor, because what is the casino going to do? If the casino tells them what the charges are for, then the original transaction was illegal, which would nullify their merchant agreement and the original transaction. If they try to pretend the charges were for web design services, its just an outright lie, and they have to prove they provided those services - which they never did.

    Can I get into any trouble or is this fraud when requesting a chargeback against an online casino when I know with a fair amount of certainty that the funds ended up in the casino once they went through the shell corporation that processed the transaction? Is there any way that I can push this through and not have to worry about committing any type of crime?

    If signing an affidavit to this effect is perjury, any idea what the penalties would be? A fine? Probation? Jail time?

    I've never committed a crime in my life (other than speeding), and I don't want to start now if this isn't fully legit. However, I believe the UIGEA makes this entire process 100% legit.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Consequences of Fraudulent Dispute of Credit Card Charges to a Gambling Site

    Looking for someone who has some insight on this.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Consequences of Fraudulent Dispute of Credit Card Charges to a Gambling Site

    If you want to dispute a charge, you are free to dispute it. If you fabricate grounds for the dispute, you should be prepared to accept any consequences for your fabrication. Nobody here is going to tell you to submit a false affidavit to a financial institution.

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