Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 60
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    The information is not "withheld"... There is simply no requirement to disclose it at the junction where you would like it to be disclosed. This ought to put another twist in your panties and give you enough reason to come back to bitch, nag and criticize. Even with that, it is factual information that I feel obligated to post in this thread as a reference to those who might come across here in the future.


    [INDENT][I][B]

    I don't see any reference to a requirement to disclose an SMD type on the citation. As for disclosure by discovery, you were told by the attorney you spoke to, and I quote:


    So for all intents and purposes, and before you can proceed to trial, an attempt to obtain disclosure of the evidence, particularly, the type of SMD used, can be made and it is possible that the information will be disclosed... In the chance that the prosecuting attorney might opt to decline your request, that can and should be considered as grounds for a dismissal. But you chickened out and opted to take the shortcut by simply paying the fine.
    Maybe where you live it is grounds for dismissal, which seems to be California. I have seen a disproportionate number of people fighting tickets in CA/OR/WA (especially CA) compared to other parts of the country. Essentially, you are agreeing with everything I've said. Sure, the technicality is, if the SMD is denied "by the prosecutor", that should be grounds for dismissal. I've argued that just leaving it off entirely is unfair to begin with. You don't seem to agree with that part. Yet, you do agree that if it is denied by the prosecutor then it should be dismissed. Considering they have the same ultimate goal, it's very possible the SMD is intentionally left off knowing the defendant won't be able to get it from the prosecutor either (then it cannot be challenged). That specific tidbit is what interested the reporter.

    I should also say, it is surprising to read those words for you. It is nice to see you break away from your online persona. I was expecting you to say something like "The prosecutor has every right to deny you the SMD, and there's nothing you can do about it!" I honestly believe if someone you cared about came to you for advice on a speeding ticket, you'd listen and try to help. I don't think you are this way in real life.

    Overall, You partially agree with me, and you aren't as biased as your posts would leave one to believe. I have not paid the ticket yet. The reason I was considering paying it was because that county is far away (14 hours round trip) and unfortunately I cannot afford the lost wages from work. Plus the gas costs and hotel fare.

    Missing a full day of work and having to leave early one day, plus gas costs (at least $200) and hotel (another $60) It's a lose-lose either way. Even if the lawyer filed discovery, and it was denied, that could still mean I lose. The lawyer fees of at least $500 aren't worth it either. If I can get a change of venue myself, I'll fight it. I've been working on the discovery motion using a template. I'm not saying I expect it to work, but I'm doing everything I can within reason of my abilities. If I had the time and was my own boss, I would make the drive.

    When I say I've moved on, I meant from asking advice on this board. Anyways, we do agree on one point.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,532

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    sooners08;561711]Maybe where you live it is grounds for dismissal, which seems to be California.
    this shows your ignorance and lack of research. The state is required to prove their case and if they depend on some device to prove their claim and refuse to provide what device that is, they cannot prove their case and as such, is a basis for dismissal of the charges.



    I have seen a disproportionate number of people fighting tickets in CA/OR/WA (especially CA) compared to other parts of the country.
    Most seem to be California. I suspect there are two reasons: 1. California is the most populous state in our country so by simply random happenstance, most questions will be from California. and 2. California does seem to offer more defenses to a ticket than any other state. Since this is somewhat common knowledge, it only makes sense that a lot of people from California seek a means to dispute their tickets.


    I've argued that just leaving it off entirely is unfair to begin with.
    unfair is not necessarily illegal and in this case, they are not one and the same.

    Considering they have the same ultimate goal, it's very possible the SMD is intentionally left off knowing the defendant won't be able to get it from the prosecutor either (then it cannot be challenged).
    True but the lack of producing the proof does make the entire charge able to be challenged. The state simply makes you work for the dismissal or vindication.



    I should also say, it is surprising to read those words for you. It is nice to see you break away from your online persona. I was expecting you to say something like "The prosecutor has every right to deny you the SMD, and there's nothing you can do about it!" I honestly believe if someone you cared about came to you for advice on a speeding ticket, you'd listen and try to help. I don't think you are this way in real life.
    for some reason you are under the belief that those that post here are trying to assist people in escaping valid charges. There have been a few but most here believe a person that commits a crime should pay for it. We are more interested the rules are followed in the states attempt to convict a person than trying to get them off.

    The reason I was considering paying it was because that county is far away (14 hours round trip) and unfortunately I cannot afford the lost wages from work. Plus the gas costs and hotel fare.
    then, as with many people, paying it is cheaper than fighting it, even if you win. Sorry to say but that is the reality of the situation so often.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    You seem to forget, Texas is the second most populated state close to 25million. Oklahoma is 3.6million, Louisiana almost 5million. Arkansas 2.9million.

    When you add those up, you equalize California's population of approx. 36million. Even Washington and Oregon seem to contest tickets quite often. Population has little to do with it. It's amazing to me, seeing how these states constantly will allow complete discovery, and usually from just an informal discovery request. It seems fair, and would just be unheard of in other states.

    If it did, you'd see as many people fighting tickets in Texas. It's simply a different ideology in the south, and a more draconian mentality to begin with. Stepping into a courtroom to contest a ticket may be perfectly acceptable in one state, and be considered insulting to the law in another state, although still within one's legal rights.

    California has always been known for its "off the grid" thinking, and I can tell you with complete certainty, if written trial (which would be great in this instance) were passed here, it would be controversial anywhere in the south, because it would mean speeders were getting free passes (as they might win for a change, and not have to pay for a lawyer).

    I'm not under the belief anyone posting here is trying to get anyone to escape valid charges. I think the opposite is true, and no consideration is given to the possibility that person is innocent. We're not talking about federal cases here, this is speeding tickets. I've also seen a common response when someone firmly believes the wrong speed reading was obtained, or the speed reading of a different car obtained. The response is usually this:

    "Why would an officer do that"?

    The reason is simple, like any business, not everyone is honest. Speeding tickets are largely for-profit. Some officers have quotas, some may want to impress their bosses writing as many possible tickets as they can. Others may have made a mistake and not known it. This trap is used here, knowing the above mentioned person may reply in any combination of the above, then they can easily be accused of whining, complaining, thinking the cops were bad, a "Rodney King" way of thinking. Quotas do exist: http://blog.motorists.org/if-you-did...-you-will-now/

    It does seem to be sort of a game with certain members here doing that, this never-ending implication of guilt does get old after you've read it enough times. With that said, some people have been helpful.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,532

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    Quote Quoting sooners08
    View Post

    It does seem to be sort of a game with certain members here doing that, this never-ending implication of guilt does get old after you've read it enough times. With that said, some people have been helpful.
    and of course there is the most likely possibility that most of the people that come here looking to defend a ticket actually are guilty of the crime charged. Of course that is simply a possibility you will obviously refuse to consider.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South-Central Cali
    Posts
    1,274

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    Most seem to be California. I suspect there are two reasons: 1. California is the most populous state in our country so by simply random happenstance, most questions will be from California. and 2. California does seem to offer more defenses to a ticket than any other state. Since this is somewhat common knowledge, it only makes sense that a lot of people from California seek a means to dispute their tickets.
    (2) as mentioned by jk is in large part because most traffic tickets in CA are criminal infractions, with most of the laws and protections for misdemeanor offenses technically applicable (besides free lawyer and trial by jury).

    Quote Quoting sooners08
    View Post
    You seem to forget, Texas is the second most populated state close to 25million.
    ...
    It's amazing to me, seeing how these states constantly will allow complete discovery, and usually from just an informal discovery request. It seems fair, and would just be unheard of in other states.
    ...
    If it did, you'd see as many people fighting tickets in Texas.
    I may be wrong, but I thought ALL speeding tickets in Texas were misdemeanors? In that case, both the US Constitution and US Supreme Court precedent mandate certain rights and protections which override any and all state/local laws. Now, California also has many state-level protections BUT traffic judges/courts here will often happily ignore them to get their hands on your cash unless you proactively read up on the law and fight it. Texas traffic courts probably do the same.

    Edit: As of the 2001, all speeding tickets in Oklahoma were misdemeanors too!
    Bottom line, if you had the time (usually this means your time is not worth very much money), you could file discovery, etc. on your own and fight this. The fact that it's inconvenient is not an excuse to whine. OK law also allows 75/70 mph on many highways, with a speed survey required before that can be lowered to 65.


    I'm not under the belief anyone posting here is trying to get anyone to escape valid charges. I think the opposite is true, and no consideration is given to the possibility that person is innocent. We're not talking about federal cases here, this is speeding tickets. I've also seen a common response when someone firmly believes the wrong speed reading was obtained, or the speed reading of a different car obtained.
    You're in the minority. As jk said^^, most of us here are pretty sure that at least the spirit of the law was violated; that's why our suggested defenses are often technical (similar to what a lawyer might do) instead of saying folks should go to court and shout "I'm innocent!!!!" at the top of their voices.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    and of course there is the most likely possibility that most of the people that come here looking to defend a ticket actually are guilty of the crime charged. Of course that is simply a possibility you will obviously refuse to consider.
    I've seen several topics in which people admit guilt. I'm specifically talking about instances where the person says they did not do it, and just can't get a fair shake from any members for the life of themselves.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South-Central Cali
    Posts
    1,274

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    Quote Quoting sooners08
    View Post
    I'm specifically talking about instances where the person says they did not do it, and just can't get a fair shake from any members for the life of themselves.
    Not true, IMHO. You will often find us trying to clarify the violation in case the person wrongly believes they didn't do it. A recent example is where a person who had a stop sign in front of him thought he was not guilty of running it because he changed into the right-side "bike lane" before crossing that point.

    Naturally, different members have different approaches but I don't think you'll find any of the regular posters saying "You're lying through your teeth, get outta here!" to anyone who claims to be innocent.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    Quote Quoting quirkyquark
    View Post
    (2) as mentioned by jk is in large part because most traffic tickets in CA are criminal infractions, with most of the laws and protections for misdemeanor offenses technically applicable (besides free lawyer and trial by jury).



    I may be wrong, but I thought ALL speeding tickets in Texas were misdemeanors? In that case, both the US Constitution and US Supreme Court precedent mandate certain rights and protections which override any and all state/local laws. Now, California also has many state-level protections BUT traffic judges/courts here will often happily ignore them to get their hands on your cash unless you proactively read up on the law and fight it. Texas traffic courts probably do the same.

    Edit: As of the 2001, all speeding tickets in Oklahoma were misdemeanors too!
    Bottom line, if you had the time (usually this means your time is not worth very much money), you could file discovery, etc. on your own and fight this. The fact that it's inconvenient is not an excuse to whine. OK law also allows 75/70 mph on many highways, with a speed survey required before that can be lowered to 65.




    You're in the minority. As jk said^^, most of us here are pretty sure that at least the spirit of the law was violated; that's why our suggested defenses are often technical (similar to what a lawyer might do) instead of saying folks should go to court and shout "I'm innocent!!!!" at the top of their voices.
    Aren't speeding tickets civil (non-misdemeanor) in WA? You see lots of people from there contesting tickets. There is a huge regional difference in the attitudes of the public towards speeding when comparing the west coast to everywhere else. Not that it makes any difference, but it is interesting.

    I'm sure it's not federal law that one has the right to know the SMD. I'm sure it is not. Out of curiosity, if most people do know the SMD on a citation in a particular state, shouldn't that apply to everyone within that state? Isn't that what due process is all about? If a particular county wants to deny the SMD upon discovery, that doesn't seem fair by any means.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    South-Central Cali
    Posts
    1,274

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    Quote Quoting sooners08
    View Post
    Aren't speeding tickets civil (non-misdemeanor) in WA? You see lots of people from there contesting tickets. There is a huge regional difference in the attitudes of the public towards speeding when comparing the west coast to everywhere else. Not that it makes any difference, but it is interesting.
    They are civil in WA. I agree about regional differences.

    If a particular county wants to deny the SMD upon discovery, that doesn't seem fair by any means.
    They CANNOT formally deny discovery. Conversely, such discovery must be requested formally. I don't think you did so. See this site, and more specifically, this form. Send it certified/return receipt and let's see them ignore it then. Be sure to add all that you want (SMD, etc.) to that general request before you send it off though.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Not Sure How Ticket Was Issued

    The chance of it being granted in this particular county is non-existent (according to the lawyer). I'll try regardless. For whatever reason, the ticket is all you are legally entitled to.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Speeding Tickets: Texas Speeding Ticket, No Alleged Speed, Speed Limit or Code Violated Listed
    By Dsfb78 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-18-2010, 06:20 PM
  2. Speeding Tickets: Speeding Ticket - Alleged Speed And Posted Speed Limit Not Listed
    By grey in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-23-2008, 01:35 PM
  3. Speeding Tickets: Speed Measurement For A Ticket in Pennsylvania
    By 01jordyn in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-26-2007, 10:04 AM
  4. Speeding Tickets: Speed not listed on ticket
    By zuess215 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-06-2006, 06:38 PM
  5. Speeding Tickets: Method for measuring speed omitted from speeding ticket
    By firstplacefinish in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-21-2006, 05:19 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources