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  1. #1

    Default How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    My question involves small claims court in the state of: PA

    I don't know if this is the proper forum for this but I couldn't find another.

    My local township put up a 4-way stop sign on a road. After checking the MUTCD, I realized that they did not follow the procedure to perform engineering surveys, etc. The only thing that they did was pass a resolution at a township meeting.

    If they refuse to take it down when I just ask them, what can I do legally to have it taken down? How would I go about filing a law suit in this type of situation?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    What section of the MUTCD are you looking at, that you believe mandates a specific procedure for the approval of the sign?

  3. #3

    Default Re: How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    I am looking at the 2003 MUTCD which was in effect when my municipality put up the 4-way stop sign in 2008. The section is 2B.05. The manual uses the word "should" when indicating that engineering judgement be used in determining that a stop sign be implemented. Maybe the use of the term "should" means that they don't have to use an engineering survey?

    I am going to get the minutes from the meeting to see if there was any discussion about whether the stop sign was used for the purpose of speed control which the manual indicates should not be used.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    The word should normally means "may", not mandatory. The word "shall" usually is mandatory but not all the time

  5. #5
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    Default Re: How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    Why does the sign offend you so much? Of what benefit would it be to you, to have it taken down? Alternately, what damages is it causing you to have it up?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    shall= must
    should= recommended but not required
    may= totally discretionary

  7. #7

    Default Re: How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    jk,

    So the MUTCD recommends that an engineering survey be used but they are not required to do so. Still the question, is there any basis for a lawsuit when "should" is used rather than "shall"? In my case traffic is being stopped both ways on a main road for the benefit of a private community (very little traffic) which has two exits at that intersection.

    I don't think that municipalities can just put up stop signs anywhere they want. After all, I have a driveway on that same road and would love a stop sign so I could get out easier. I am wondering if there is any recourse here. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    8,006

    Default Re: How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    Quote Quoting cbg
    View Post
    Why does the sign offend you so much? Of what benefit would it be to you, to have it taken down? Alternately, what damages is it causing you to have it up?
    It's probably the one he got a ticket at so he's looking for every possible avenue of defense, i.e. it never should have been there so I shouldn't have gotten a ticket. I wish him luck on that one.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    24,521

    Default Re: How to Make a Municipality Remove a Traffic Sign

    Won't work. Even in the exceedingly unlikely chance that he's able to get the sign taken down, it will still have been up at the time he got the ticket so he'll still be liable for it. IMHO, of course, but the fact that the sign is (hypothetically) taken down does not erase what happened while it was there.

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