Results 1 to 10 of 58

Hybrid View

  1. #1

    Default Red Light Violation in California

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: CA

    Hello Experts,
    I needed you feedback on my situation. I am planning to file a TBD. I got a red light violation VC 21453 (c) (on left turn on red arrow) when a cop pulled me over at a intersection. I was driving my friendís car and I had my car insurance but could not locate where I kept it in his car. So he also added violation VC 16028(a). When I mentioned that I do have car insurance, he said that you will have to mail the copy to get it off the ticket. Will there be any issues if I send the copy over or will it be taken off?
    Regarding my red light violation VC 21453(c), I did not run the light and entered the intersection when the light had just turned yellow. By the time I I was 1/2 or 2/3 way into the intersection the light turned red. The cop mentioned that I ran the red light and when I mentioned that I am pretty sure the light was yellow, he said that the light on the perpendicular road had already turned green while I was still inside the intersection.
    My defense is that I already entered the intersection when the light was still yellow. Besides the intersection is a big intersection (3 lanes at the closest perpendicular road and 2 lanes on the road where I was finishing my turn). On the ticket my speed is listed as >15 MPH and I was indeed at the same speed around 15/16 MPH. The traffic condition was listed as Heavy on the ticket. Given the above scenario, If I would have ran the red light and entered the intersection after the light turned red, I would have gotten into a tangle with the cars approaching from the perpendicular roads since with my speed and the length of the intersection, I would not have completed the turn without being involved in an accident. Also, my speed suggests that I was driving safely and normally and not trying to beat the red light.
    One more thing is that I was coming out of a shopping complex where, just before the light, on the right hand side there was fire vehicle/paramedic vehicle parked so I proceeded with utmost caution scanning the road to see if any other fire or paramedic vehicle is approaching hence I would have been slow completing my turn and thats when the officer would have seen that the perpendicular light turned green while I was still inside the intersection. But I did enter the intersection when the light was yellow.
    Do you think my defense is solid to clear my ticket? I have not had any tickets in my 10 years of driving history.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Red Light Violation Feedback Needed

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Will there be any issues if I send the copy over or will it be taken off?
    You should be OK with mailing it but you'd be better off contacting the court clerk and confirming that with them.

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Regarding my red light violation VC 21453(c), I did not run the light and entered the intersection when the light had just turned yellow. By the time I I was 1/2 or 2/3 way into the intersection the light turned red. The cop mentioned that I ran the red light and when I mentioned that I am pretty sure the light was yellow, he said that the light on the perpendicular road had already turned green while I was still inside the intersection.
    So how do you feel about red light cameras!

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Given the above scenario, If I would have ran the red light and entered the intersection after the light turned red, I would have gotten into a tangle with the cars approaching from the perpendicular roads since with my speed and the length of the intersection, I would not have completed the turn without being involved in an accident.
    Not necessarily true... Traffic signals (and especially those located on wide intersections) will likely utilize what is referred to as an "all red" signal where the signal, and after it terminated the yellow phase and goes into red, it stays at red for a few seconds for ALL directions to allow for slow drivers (or those who entered late) to cler the intersection prior to showing a green for that direction.

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Also, my speed suggests that I was driving safely and normally and not trying to beat the red light.
    Driving slow is not necessarily always safe.

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Do you think my defense is solid to clear my ticket?
    I wouldn't call it "solid"... "has potential" is probably more accurate.

    What you need to do is to contact the public works department (or whatever it is called in the city where this occurred) and request a copy of the traffic and engineering report for that intersection/signal. From that you should be able to establish yellow phase timing, all red phase timing... etc, and that might help you solidify your defense.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Red Light Violation Feedback Needed

    So how do you feel about red light cameras!

    >> It was not a camera violation. A cop pulled me over. Also, when I mentioned that I am sure it was yellow, he mentioned that the perpendicular lights were green when I was still in the intersection. This is no way verifies that I did not enter the intersection when the light was yellow.

    Driving slow is not necessarily always safe.

    >> I agree. But in my case, event though the fire engine was parked in the complex and not emergency lights were ON, I had to make sure that there were no emergency vehicles approaching the intersection and the safest and reasonable approach was to scan and make the turn slowly. Infact, It was not that I was really slow, I was at a reasonable speed. Also, while at the signal, I saw there were some vehicles a little further behind me and I had to decide whether to go though as I still had the right of way (yellow signal) or to wait and possibly congest the internal road which could have made it for any emergency vehicles to go through.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Red Light Violation Feedback Needed

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    >> It was not a camera violation. A cop pulled me over.
    I realize that. My point was that this is a case that will boil down to what the officer claims he saw, versus what you claim you saw. Alternatively, and had this intersection been equipped with a red light camera, then it would be safe to assume that if you entered the intersection on yellow, the camera would not have taken a picture, and a citation would not have been issued! And with all the recent press about the legality and benefit of red light cameras (at least in the city of Los Angeles), I was just curious to find out how you felt about red light cameras.

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Also, when I mentioned that I am sure it was yellow, he mentioned that the perpendicular lights were green when I was still in the intersection. This is no way verifies that I did not enter the intersection when the light was yellow.
    Is it possible that he mentioned that in addition to him seeing the light turn red before you entered? Where was he located at the time you turned?

    Edited to Add: Whether that statement will carry any weight or not will ultimately depend on the duration of the "all red" phase. So get that report, scan it, upload a copy of it to an image hosting website, and post a link here for us to review it.... And we'll see what we can find out!

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    >> I agree. But in my case, event though the fire engine was parked in the complex and not emergency lights were ON, I had to make sure that there were no emergency vehicles approaching the intersection and the safest and reasonable approach was to scan and make the turn slowly. Infact, It was not that I was really slow, I was at a reasonable speed.
    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Also, while at the signal, I saw there were some vehicles a little further behind me and I had to decide whether to go though as I still had the right of way (yellow signal) or to wait and possibly congest the internal road which could have made it for any emergency vehicles to go through.
    Frankly, I would not mention either of those matters in that they might suggest that you were not being attentive to what phase the light was showing when you entered the intersection. But that's just my opinion!

    Also, I am not sure what, if anything, you stated to the officer during the stop, but you should keep in mind that those statements can also be used to incriminate you.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Red Light Violation Feedback Needed

    Thanks for your responses

    Is it possible that he mentioned that in addition to him seeing the light turn red before you entered? Where was he located at the time you turned?

    >> He just said that you ran a red light and when I mentioned that I am sure it was yellow, he said that the light on the perpendicular road was green. For his conversation, I do not remember him saying definately that saw me entering the entersection on a red light. Also, I was scanning left and right while I was turning and am not sure where the cop was. I think he was on my right and on the lane where I would be completing my turn but to the far right and hence I might not have seen him. The other possibility is that he would have come from behind me. But that is a rare possibility because as soon as I completed my turn, I saw him behind me in a few seconds. The cop stopped me after I made another right turn on another intersection.
    Also, My wife was in the car at that time and she also saw that I entered the intersection when the light was yellow and that I was driving at normal spped and there was no panic inside the car nor on the road. She only realized what happened when I stopped the car after making the right turn when she asked why I stopped. AT that I said that we are being pulled over by the cop. Will I be able to include her as my witness?

    Frankly, I would not mention either of those matters in that they might suggest that you were not being attentive to what phase the light was showing when you entered the intersection. But that's just my opinion!

    >> I was looking at he signal when I entered the intersection but because of the fire engine situation, I was cautious and hence could have taken extra second to complete my turn and thats what the cop would have seen when he saw me still inside the interscation when the perpendicular lights turned green. That was the reason why I wnated to mention it since it played a part in the whole incident. Do you still think that I should atleast mention that the fire engine was present which in turn resulted in the above mentioned response.

    Also, I am not sure what, if anything, you stated to the officer during the stop, but you should keep in mind that those statements can also be used to incriminate you.

    >> My only interaction with him was he sayign that it was a red light violatio nand me saying that I am sure it was yellow and he mentioning the green signal on the perpendicular road.

    Do you think whether I request for "Discovery Report" before filing the TBD? If I do not, at the moment, will I be able to request it if I am found guilty on TBD and before I go for court trial?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Red Light Violation Feedback Needed

    I'm curious to know at approximately what time of day or night this happened?

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Will I be able to include her as my witness?
    Yes, you may... Though it should be noted that in light of the fact that she is your wife, it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to assume that the benefit of your being found not guilty, would naturally extend to her as well... Still, biased as she might be, her testimony would have to be allowed however, the trier of fact can then determine how much to weigh her credibility at.

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    >> I was looking at he signal when I entered the intersection but because of the fire engine situation, I was cautious and hence could have taken extra second to complete my turn and thats what the cop would have seen when he saw me still inside the interscation when the perpendicular lights turned green. That was the reason why I wnated to mention it since it played a part in the whole incident. Do you still think that I should atleast mention that the fire engine was present which in turn resulted in the above mentioned response.
    No seriously... And with all due respect, here is the way I see it... Unless you can somehow establish that seeing fire trucks (or whatever else you saw during the time you were making your turn) was such a life changing experience, then the typical average person is not likely to remember what they were doing each and every moment of routine occurrence -making a left turn out of a shopping center-, simply because during those moments that you are describing now in such great detail, there was no indication whatsoever why you would need to remember and recite what you saw, which way you turned your neck at each and every moment as you exited that shopping center and completed your left turn...

    I am not suggesting that you are being less than truthful. My only concern is that these statements that you are making here, may leave the wrong impression with the judge reading or hearing your case. But that's just one opinion. Others may feel differently! And you're free to plan your defense whichever way you see fit.

    Quote Quoting bpat
    View Post
    Do you think whether I request for "Discovery Report" before filing the TBD? If I do not, at the moment, will I be able to request it if I am found guilty on TBD and before I go for court trial?
    Whether you do request discovery before your TBD or after you TBD, you have the right to review the officer's declaration that he filed as his written testimony in your case. And that would likely give you much more insight into what the officer's testimony will consist of at a Trial De Novo (if you choose to go that far) than any items that you are likely to receive via discovery.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Similar Threads

  1. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Red Light Camera Violation in California
    By Dmann7 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-03-2010, 11:03 PM
  2. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: California 21453 (A) - Red Light Violation
    By jvicky0718 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-16-2010, 11:52 PM
  3. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: California VC 21453a (Red-Light) Violation
    By jvicky0718 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-06-2010, 12:14 PM
  4. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: California Red Light Enforcement Violation
    By dyna32 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-10-2009, 09:44 PM
  5. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Red Light Violation in California
    By milesming in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-27-2008, 12:11 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources