15 Year Old Pregnant by 18 Year Old Boy

[cyjeff]

Honestly... if you don't understand how a baby is proof of sexual activity, I don't know what to say... well, except you need to really sit down with mommy and daddy and ask them.

Don't ask any children though. You already know how that turns out.

All you have truly done is prove you have no idea how law works.

I would suggest you start by rereading the tenth amendment.

[noprimenumbers]

if you don't understand how a baby is proof of sexual activity

(BTW I kind of like your brand of sarcasm even if I am in opposition to your view point)
In this situation it would be pregnancy as the birth has not yet occurred. This however, is not proof of any one type of sexual activity. Just as a dead body is not proof of any one type of death.

The young man here could be taking responsibility for what someone else has done out of love for the young lady. The young lady could be suffering from sexual abuse by a family member that resulted in the pregnancy and believes that the young man is the father as a coping mechanism.

Her pregnancy is not proof of his sexual involvement with her any more than is his confession of responsibility. These things are evidence that sexual activity occurred and that the young man may have been the culprit. In the legal system this may be enough to warrant a DNA test to determine the biological father but not enough to convict.

Add a hole to the dead body above and what do you have, murder, accident or suicide? Let's even throw in a person who is saying "it's all my fault". Are they claiming that they committed murder, accidentally killed, or drove them to committing suicide?

noprimenumbers;538151]The OP did not mention that the boy was suspected, charged, or convicted of a crime that would fit within the criteria needed to define him as any type of criminal.

what the Hell have you been smoking. I cited the law (at least one of them) that the guy has broken. It's an 18 yo guy and a 15 you girl. She's pregnant. It requires a criminal act to have gotten her pregnant.

You however have already convicted him.

Based on the information presented, damn straight.

Remember it is innocence before guilt.

It is presumed innocence until proven otherwise. I'm accepting the OP's statements as factual. That means the guy is guilty.

Objectivity is needed to give vital impartial information for one to base a decision on. Please work on this in the future.

No need to be objective here. OP supplied the statements that would, if proven out, will prove the guys guilt.

For another example I could claim that jk is a supporter vigilantly justice but to do so would not be right as I have no proof of this. jk could even confess that they are in support of it and it would still not be proof. It could be enough evidence to warrant further investigation but not enough to for a judge to issue a search warrant to find additional evidence.

If you wish to know the age of consent for your state, you may refer to one of the lists available from a variety of other websites. The following examples are provided without any endorsement of their content or accuracy - use them at your own risk:

• Avert.org
• About.com

Please do not ask in this forum if it is legal for you or someone else to engage in sex acts involving a minor or, if you're a minor, if it's legal for you to engage in sex acts with an adult. If you are concerned about potential prosecution for statutory rape or another sex crime, but nonetheless wish to pursue the relationship, consult a lawyer.

I have tried to avoid conflicting with this rule. I have only stated the minimum standards as set by federal law by the example of one of several defining terms all of which are versions that use the same age/age range. If you wish to argue the validity of my statement that this is what the states must fall within please PM me and we can start a new thread or use some other method so as not to confuse others. I will not argue the guilt or innocence of any person under state law from the point of this or any other thread. I don't mind arguments that maintain some level of civility.

As for the issue of my knowledge, experience, and understanding of the law and legal process. The 10th Amendment is nothing without an understanding of its application. Here is one such; President Jackson's Proclamation Regarding Nullification, December 10, 1832 http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/jack01.asp Also note that the first paragraph has a link that should be read for a better understanding of the situation that is being addressed. If you have yet to visit the Avalon Project I recommend it as 1 of many great online resources. If you would like more resources let me know.

Side note:
I am looking for an online equivalent to the Anti-Federalist Papers compiled by Professor Herbert Storing. If anyone knows of such PM me I would be very grateful.

[jk]

noprimenumbers;538288](BTW I kind of like your brand of sarcasm even if I am in opposition to your view point)
In this situation it would be pregnancy as the birth has not yet occurred.

so, is a child in a womb not a baby?

This however, is not proof of any one type of sexual activity. Just as a dead body is not proof of any one type of death.

accepting the OP's statements, it is proof of enough sexual activity to prosecute the guy for molestation of a minor.

The young man here could be taking responsibility for what someone else has done out of love for the young lady. The young lady could be suffering from sexual abuse by a family member that resulted in the pregnancy and believes that the young man is the father as a coping mechanism.

Ok, and it might be an immaculate conception or an alien/human hybrid experiment. I'm going to take the op's statements at face value and that is; the 18 yo guy is the father. If you want to speculate, be my guest. I guess when you are losing in every point of your argument, you start grabbing at anything to keep your head above water.

Her pregnancy is not proof of his sexual involvement with her any more than is his confession of responsibility. These things are evidence that sexual activity occurred and that the young man may have been the culprit. In the legal system this may be enough to warrant a DNA test to determine the biological father but not enough to convict.

You are right but again, taking the OP's statements at face value.....

Add a hole to the dead body above and what do you have, murder, accident or suicide? Let's even throw in a person who is saying "it's all my fault". Are they claiming that they committed murder, accidentally killed, or drove them to committing suicide?

how far are you going to run away from the case at hand?

For another example I could claim that jk is a supporter vigilantly justice but to do so would not be right as I have no proof of this. jk could even confess that they are in support of it and it would still not be proof. It could be enough evidence to warrant further investigation but not enough to for a judge to issue a search warrant to find additional evidence.

was that supposed to be:

a supporter of vigilante justice or something else. For claiming to be so intelligent, using vigilantly (which means: watchful) in place of vigilante (meaning: extra-governmental justice) is a huge faux pas (synonym of: gaffe, in case you are not familiar with the term)

I have tried to avoid conflicting with this rule. I have only stated the minimum standards as set by federal law by the example of one of several defining terms all of which are versions that use the same age/age range.

Are you going back to that incorrectly cited law you presented previously? You really don't understand what that law is about, do you?

I will not argue the guilt or innocence of any person under state law from the point of this or any other thread. I don't mind arguments that maintain some level of civility.

Thank God you don't require they require some level of understanding of the laws. If you did, you would have to excuse yourself.

As for the issue of my knowledge, experience, and understanding of the law and legal process.

let me finish your statement for you:

I have none.

[noprimenumbers]

so, is a child in a womb not a baby?

Personally I believe that life begins a conception. I am not familiar with the any of the laws or judgments on the issue. As such I only differentiate for clarification of the situation.

accepting the OP's statements, it is proof of enough sexual activity to prosecute the guy for molestation of a minor.

I can accept this statement a one possibility. But I must ask, where you accepted my argument below (with exception) could you explain the minor contradiction? I feel like I could have done a better job by combining the 2 parts.

Her pregnancy is not proof of his sexual involvement with her any more than is his confession of responsibility. These things are evidence that sexual activity occurred and that the young man may have been the culprit. In the legal system this may be enough to warrant a DNA test to determine the biological father but not enough to convict.

You are right but again, taking the OP's statements at face value.....

was that supposed to be:

a supporter of vigilante justice or something else. For claiming to be so intelligent, using vigilantly (which means: watchful) in place of vigilante (meaning: extra-governmental justice) is a huge faux pas (synonym of: gaffe, in case you are not familiar with the term)

Can we agree that we all make stupid mistakes and not hold it against each other once we admit to them?

Are you going back to that incorrectly cited law you presented previously? You really don't understand what that law is about, do you?

Forgive me while I try one more time. I did not cite a law I cited a defining term. It defines the minimum requirements. To my knowledge all states have modified their laws according to these defined limits. Most have raised the minimum age of consent to 16 or 17 and the age difference to 3 years. I don't know yet what the reason for setting the minimum age at 13 as this is just too young. I set the age at 21 for my kids (good luck with that) If you still think I am wrong in demonstrating the minimums for moral consideration I want to understand why. As you say "face value" I see not only the legal issue but the moral one as well in the OP's questions. Because I personally can not say that it is ok to hide this from the law I show the absolute minimum that is allowable by any law and this goes to the federal definition.

And what is wrong with the dead body analogy? I thought it fit quite well.

[DaveJames]

Can I go back to the original OP post and ask what education the man has, what type of work does he do, and what attributes OP believs this man has to prove he is able to support and provide a good home and be a good role model to this child and girl.

Are we going to see this couple on an episode of COPS during a domestic dispute ?

[jk]

noprimenumbers;538348]Personally I believe that life begins a conception. I am not familiar with the any of the laws or judgments on the issue. As such I only differentiate for clarification of the situation.

so now, you say you accept life begins at conception but in the prior post, you denied there was a baby. Yes, it is semantics but it shows inconsistency on your part since both statements were made by you.

I can accept this statement a one possibility. But I must ask, where you accepted my argument below (with exception) could you explain the minor contradiction? I feel like I could have done a better job by combining the 2 parts.

in the situation at hand, we have an earnest belief the guy in question is the father. I acknowledge that. In your other scenario, you were speaking of a legal certainty. Obviously in the thread, there is no legal certainty until there is testing performed.

Can we agree that we all make stupid mistakes and not hold it against each other once we admit to them?

I know I do but I wasn't the one claiming to be holier than thou. You are the one that put yourself above everybody else here so pointing out your error was simply to let you know that you may be thinking more of yourself than the truth justifies.

Forgive me while I try one more time. I did not cite a law I cited a defining term.

You cited a law. Remember when you posted this:

42 USC § 16911. Relevant definitions, including Amie Zyla expansion of sex offender definition and expanded inclusion of child predators

Yes, you posted an excerpt from that law but that is typical in citing a law. There is no reason to present all the info that would be superfluous to the reason for citing the law.

It defines the minimum requirements.

requirements for what? You seem to have missed where I showed you the title of the section defines it as the basis for instituting a sex offender registry. Beyond that, you need to understand that a state can enact and enforce a law more stringent than the federal law that is applicable to within their state borders.

To my knowledge all states have modified their laws according to these defined limits. Most have raised the minimum age of consent to 16 or 17 and the age difference to 3 years.

You need to research a lot more.

I don't know yet what the reason for setting the minimum age at 13 as this is just too young.

some states have some very antiquated though processes where it was not uncommon for a child under 15 to get married. When the life expectancy is 35 or 40, 15 is darn near middle aged.

I set the age at 21 for my kids (good luck with that) If you still think I am wrong in demonstrating the minimums for moral consideration I want to understand why.

+well, for all the states that the age where a person becomes an adult is 18, your restriction to 21 is a bit overly oppressive.

As you say "face value" I see not only the legal issue but the moral one as well in the OP's questions. Because I personally can not say that it is ok to hide this from the law I show the absolute minimum that is allowable by any law and this goes to the federal definition.

the fed definition has nothing to do with this being a crime or not. The state law says it is so it is.

[viol8te]

Can I go back to the original OP post and ask what education the man has, what type of work does he do, and what attributes OP believs this man has to prove he is able to support and provide a good home and be a good role model to this child and girl.

Are we going to see this couple on an episode of COPS during a domestic dispute ?

Regardless of his education or employment status, this guy is 18! I find it hard to imagine him being in a committed relationship for long. At some point, there is going to be little desire to protect him from the law. athat point should present itself right around the time the 15 year old gets her heart broken and now wants revenge.

Set you DVR for COPS in about five years.

[noprimenumbers]

jk I would like to continue with this conversation but I feel as though we are taking away from the original post. Perhaps we could pick it up in a few days if you like.

Sorry if I came across as trying to be better than others. I looked it over and I see your point it wasn't intentional. I find it difficult to keep my personal feelings out of it so tend to over compensate. Let's see if the OP will come back. I hope so as DaveJames has some interesting questions.

[KatelinNicole77]

I don't think you should do anything about it. It's not officially rape, if the girl had a say-so in the act. She is fifteen years old, did she SAY she was raped? NO, they are TOGETHER, as in dating. Although, I am no attorney at ALL, but if her immediate family, let's say her father, isn't doing anything about it, then I'd advise you not to do anything, that's just going to ruin your relationship with that girl AND her family. I really disagree with the whole, "She's fifteen, there is no way she knew what she was getting herself into, she's just a child", that's incorrect. She knew what she was doing, and she's having a baby, he doesn't seem like he's leaving her with no way to take care of the child or anything. I think it would be a waste in court, and it could really ruin a family. If the hospital or any place asks to know the father, that is legally none of their business, and she does NOT have to tell them a word. Nobody does. Their job is to take care of a young girl pregnant, not find out her life story.

[Dogmatique]

I don't think you should do anything about it. It's not officially rape, if the girl had a say-so in the act. She is fifteen years old, did she SAY she was raped? NO, they are TOGETHER, as in dating. Although, I am no attorney at ALL, but if her immediate family, let's say her father, isn't doing anything about it, then I'd advise you not to do anything, that's just going to ruin your relationship with that girl AND her family. I really disagree with the whole, "She's fifteen, there is no way she knew what she was getting herself into, she's just a child", that's incorrect. She knew what she was doing, and she's having a baby, he doesn't seem like he's leaving her with no way to take care of the child or anything. I think it would be a waste in court, and it could really ruin a family. If the hospital or any place asks to know the father, that is legally none of their business, and she does NOT have to tell them a word. Nobody does. Their job is to take care of a young girl pregnant, not find out her life story.

I can't even begin to correct the misinformation in this post - there's just so much of it.

PLEASE don't post unless you know what you're talking about!