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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4

    Default Is it Careless or Unsafe Driving to Drive at Night Using Only Daytime Running Lights

    My question involves a careless driving ticket from the State of: Pennsylvania

    Hello all,

    I'm posting because of concern of the legality for me getting pulled over last Saturday. About 11:30PM I followed my friends into the driveway of their church parking lot to park in the lot and stay the night at my friends' house across the street. While within the confines of the private property/parking lot of the church, my friend dimmed her lights (just turned on daytime running lights), and since she goes through this parking lot every night, I thought it was due to respect the neighbors by not shining bright light through their windows, so I turned my daytime running lights on also (instead of the normal night headlights). About 5 seconds later I parked my vehicle in the church parking lot, got out, and locked my door. While shutting my door, I see lights turned on, and there was a cop car right behind me that didn't have his lights on the whole time!

    The officer got out of the vehicle and then asked why I turned my headlights off, and I told him I didn't, my daytime lights were still on, I just dimmed my lights out of respect, and I wasn't on a road anymore, I was in a parking lot on private property I was given permission to park in. At this time he smelled alcohol on my breath, and I blew a .081, he arrested me, then took my keys, told me he was going to lock my car, but instead since it was already locked, he unlocked it and searched it, taking what was left from my case of beer for the night.

    Anyways, where I'm getting at, is that I am wondering if the officer was in his legal rights to have tried ticketing me for "careless/unsafe" driving in the first place. I may be completely wrong, but I would like to know if I was actually guilty of that by turning my night-headlights off, and daytime running lights on. It was 11:30PM in a church/graveyard parking lot which was private property with nobody else on the property other than my friends, and no property was being damaged (I thought careless driving was constituted by a "disregard for the safety of people or property")

    Any help is appreciated, I thank you all for reading!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Is it Careless or Unsafe Driving to Drive at Night Using Only Daytime Running Lig

    The fact that they're called "daytime running lights" should give you some sense that they're not intended to be sufficient for nighttime driving. Yes, it can be very dangerous to drive at night without proper illumination of your vehicle. You don't get excused from traffic laws when you're in a parking lot that's open to the public, even if it's privately owned.

    Presumably your state has a charge for driving without your headlights illuminated; if you find such a statute and if the penalty is less than the careless driving charge, consider negotiating with the prosecutor for an amendment of the charge. (Or otherwise negotiating for a deferral, dismissal on costs, or other beneficial resolution.)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Is it Careless or Unsafe Driving to Drive at Night Using Only Daytime Running Lig

    Thank you for the reply.

    I understand that they are daytime running lights, but can you please enlighten me on what "parking/fog" lights are for? I had them on too, and with being in a barren parking lot, and parking 5 seconds after I turned the lights off, does that give me any leg to stand on whatsoever? Also, the parking lot was a well lit lot. Again I don't know if this even matters, but the officer was pulling me over on a complete BS charge, and then it snowballed into more, so that's why I'm wondering if I have any chance on throwing the original charge out.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Is it Careless or Unsafe Driving to Drive at Night Using Only Daytime Running Lig

    Actually, a better question to ask is; is it illegal to only have daytime running lights on in private property that's open to the public (but possibly not at 11:30pm? when I got pulled over). Would it really fall under the law as a real "roadway/highway" whatever you'd like to call it?

    Thanks,

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    695

    Default Re: Is it Careless or Unsafe Driving to Drive at Night Using Only Daytime Running Lig

    There just so happens to be a code requiring headlights. When the lot is open to public transportation movement (such as a parking lot) then it is part of the roadway, which is part of the highway. What if there had been someone walking across the lot and you hit them? The stop was valid though even if the initial ticket gets tossed. It reasonable that an officer would stop to investigate when two vehicles are seen in an otherwise deserted parking lot without headlights. Since he was right behind you it's also reasonable to assume that he say you operating the vehicle on the highway (roadway) and since you were intoxicated that is a problem. The officer also has the right (if not the responsability) to conduct an inventory of your vehicle for CYA reasons so the search which turned up your beer is good too.
    § 4302. Periods for requiring lighted lamps.
    (a) General rule.--The operator of a vehicle upon a highway shall display the lighted head lamps and other lamps and illuminating devices required under this chapter for differentclasses of vehicles, subject to exceptions with respect to parked vehicles, at the following times:
    (1) Between sunset and sunrise.
    (2) Any time when the operator cannot discern a person or vehicle upon the highway from a distance of 1,000 feet due to insufficient light or unfavorable atmospheric conditions, including rain, snow, sleet, hail, fog, smoke or smog.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Is it Careless or Unsafe Driving to Drive at Night Using Only Daytime Running Lig

    So you're saying the officer was in his legal rights to take my keys after I locked my vehicle and tell me that's what he's going to do - LOCK MY VEHICLE, and then when I say it's already locked, he unlocks it anyways, and searches it. It's legal for him to do that? And I'm not sure if it didn't matter or you didn't read closely, but our vehicles had headlights on, just not taillights. So in a well lit parking lot and with headlights, no I don't think we would have hit anyone. Especially since nobody was there other than us.

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