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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    5

    Default Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    My question involves collection proceedings in the State of: PA. I recently reported to an outpatient facility for a colonoscopy; I followed all of the instructions in the letter that I received and the letter stated that any sedation would be administered by an anesthesiologist. Upon arrival I had questions for the anesthesiologist, but was told to hurry up and change because the didn't want to get behind, so I complied. A pushy nurse started an IV and became annoyed when I asked again to speak to the anesthesiologist; she told me that she (a nurse anesthetist not an anesthesiologist) would be doing my sedation and that I had to sign the sedation consent, which I did not do. When I politely told her that the letter I received specified an anesthesiologist, she want into a rant that she (a CRNA) is equivilent to an anesthesiologist (one is a pnysician and one is a nurse with additional training..big difference), that I had no choice but to sign the consent and to proceed. I declined and asked her to remove the IV and to get my clothes, she started yelling at me so I removed the IV myself, at which point she grabbed my arm and got stuck with the needle. This nurse threatened to charge me for her CRNA services (she did nothing and I never signed a consent); she is also demanding that I get a blood test (she's pregnant) which I won't do, Can they really bill me for this? I didn't get the provider that was promised, didn't sign any consent (isn't what she did battery)? Obviously I'll never go back; should I take this threat from a nurse seriously? This is so weird...Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    New Jersey
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    3,666

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    There is no difference between an anesthesiologist and an anesthetist except that one is a doctor and the other being a nurse, they both have the same exact training and know how to administer drugs.

    The nurse started an IV so she started to perform her job duties. What makes you think that she shouldn't get paid to do so?

    Don't pay the bill and you will find yourself in collections and getting annoying phone calls at home and work.

    How did she get stuck with a needle when there wasn't a needle in your arm that you decided you were going to rip out? A needle is used to insert a catheter into your body and then the needle is removed when the catheter is in place. A catheter is a flexible tube that the IV fluids run through.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    5

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    Quote Quoting Who'sThatGuy
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    There is no difference between an anesthesiologist and an anesthetist except that one is a doctor and the other being a nurse, they both have the same exact training and know how to administer drugs.

    The nurse started an IV so she started to perform her job duties. What makes you think that she shouldn't get paid to do so?

    Don't pay the bill and you will find yourself in collections and getting annoying phone calls at home and work.

    How did she get stuck with a needle when there wasn't a needle in your arm that you decided you were going to rip out? A needle is used to insert a catheter into your body and then the needle is removed when the catheter is in place. A catheter is a flexible tube that the IV fluids run through.
    It was a technically the cannula that was in place after the neelde was withdrawn. There is a huge difference between an anesthesiologist and a CRNA; that's not what I was asking here. My question really involves the consent.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    24,521

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    There is no difference betweenan anesthesiologist and an anesthetist except that one is a doctor and the other being a nurse, they both have the same exact training and know how to administer drugs.

    Really? It will surprise my father, who was an anesthesiologist for 30 years, that the nurse anesthetists he occasionally worked with have the exact same four year specialist training that he did (and that's four years training as an anesthesiologist after he already had his MD.)

    Yes a nurse anesthetist is trained to handle and give drugs. But it's not even remotely the same training that an anesthesiologist has.

    Don't be absurd.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    5

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    I don't want to debate CRNA vs anesthesiologist; my issue was with consent. Few in the medical field (even CRNAs) would say that a CRNA has the training that na anesthesiologist has. Here in PA it takes less than 2 years of nurse anesthetist schooling to become a CRNA after graduation from nursing school. To compare this with 4 years of med school plus residency (5 years here) is a little silly. That;s why CRNA are nurses and not physicians. That's why I don't want a CRNA doing my anesthesia and neither do most of the doctors that I know. I got a letter promising a physician and they tried to substitute a nurse just before the procedure; this is wrong on so many levals. And having the little creep threaten me with a bill puts it over the top for me...I'm not a lawyer, but for an elective procedure I doubt thet the nurse is allowed to touch me without any signed consent. Normally, I'm reasonable, but when lied to and threatened by a nurse, I will do everything that I can legally do to fight back. cbg thanks for your info-lots of physicians in my area are refusing care from unsupervised CRNA; lots of them.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    so far, it doesn't sound like you have been billed. I would wait until or if a bill shows up to see what they are attempting to bill you for. It's hard to contest something that doesn't exist.

    I would think a complaint to the administrators of the facility and/or the CRNA's superiors would be in order though.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    5

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    Thanks for the reply. I just got a call from the facility manager (an MD) who apologized for the incident; the nurse was clearly out of line and I was told that I would certianly not be billed for anything. Can't ask for more than that. He was surprized to find that the letter sent out to patients says anesthesiologist and that they currently use CRNA; they will change the letter. Thanks again.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    I thought that this was over but I just got a check from the colonoscopy center for the $20 that I paid as a copay for the procedure that was cancelled; no problem, they owed me that. But the next day I get a check from the anesthesia group for $910 which was what they would have charged for the irritating nurse who was going to do my case (she did nothing). I called and left a message; the anesthesiologist in charge was apologetic for the way that I was treated and said that they didn't want the $910 back..she just said that she was sorry for the confusion and that I should get the procedure done immediately and to keep the "refund"...o.k., what do you guys think? I'm not making this up!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    Personally I would not keep the money. You are not owed the money and unless there is something in a letter or accompanying notice that it is a gesture of goodwill I can see them wanting it returned when they realize you never paid a bill to begin with. While getting an extra $900 is always nice, I can see this causing problems in the future.

    are you sure they didn't bill and receive payment from your insurance company?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Can I Be Charged if Procedure Wasn't Done

    You don't even need to be a nurse to insert the IV. I've inserted tons of IVs in hospitals. I've even administered drugs under physicians orders.

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