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  1. #1
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    Default Public Intoxication

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Oklahoma

    Situation: I was in a Mexican Food establishment and had one margarita while eating. I noticed a police officer in the office and occassionally he spoke on the radio mounted to his shirt. I learned later that he was reviewing patrons tabs to determine if they were drinking. I finish my dinner and walked out to my car. A different police officer approached me in the parking lot and asked me if I was going to drive myself home. I noticed that another patron across the lot was being handcuffed. Rather than go any farther I decided to go back into the restaurant where the waitress approached me and said the officer inside was checking receipts for alcohol and arresting people for PI. I never raised my voice inside or outside. I ate alone, walked out alone and did not stumble or act in any way that would indicate I was drunk. I wasn't drunk. I had not been drinking prior to dinner. I was well within my faculties to drive. However, the officer in the parking lot became beligerant, raised his voice and accused me of lying to him. I wasn't lying, I just changed my mind about driving given the circumstances. I wound up calling my sister to come pick me up because after 30 minutes the police left the parking lot but one parked across the street in the blind. I don't know what would have happened if I had driven. The patron being arrested did not appear to be non-compliant or drunk. I'm puzzled why the officer did not arrest me since it seemed they were arresting anyone who had been drinking. My question is: Is it legal for police to question the restaurant in order to determine if patrons have been drinking (albeit only one drink in my case) and can they use that info as probable cause to arrest me for public intoxication when my demeanor would not have indicated I was drunk?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    I am puzzled on why a restaraunt would let an officer inspect such bills?

    That aside, it matters not how many drinks were consumed, it does not "in and of itself", a legal phrase, provide probable cause for an arrest.

    It would hardly, even in my mind, provide enough justification to conduct an investigatory stop, that is, a Seizure of the person under the 4th AM.

    IF coupled with other factors, slow walking etc, etc., yes, it could provide enough justification for a seizure/detention.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    I am puzzled on why a restaraunt would let an officer inspect such bills?
    He probably asked and they complied. Given the circumstances, they probably didn't know any better. I don't know.

    That aside, it matters not how many drinks were consumed, it does not "in and of itself", a legal phrase, provide probable cause for an arrest.
    Like I mentioned, I had one drink. I'm not on any meds either. The police came in after I arrived and one walked into the office. The door was open and I could see him rummaging through papers while talking to the manager (I guess it was the manager). I didn't think anything of it at the time.

    It would hardly, even in my mind, provide enough justification to conduct an investigatory stop, that is, a Seizure of the person under the 4th AM.
    I didn't think anything I did warranted an investigatory stop. No stumbling, no slurred speech yet the guy that was being arrested didn't appear (to me) to be a threat to himself or anyone else either. He walked out ahead of me in a good mood, said "good night" and waived at the staff at the door. He didn't appear drunk. I don't know if he actually started his car or not. I didn't witness that. The police had him sprawled and were frisking him the next time I saw him.

    IF coupled with other factors, slow walking etc, etc., yes, it could provide enough justification for a seizure/detention.
    I had a normal gate when I left the restaurant, however given the commotion in the parking lot, I probably did slow down some, especially when I noticed the office approaching me. I told him I was coming out to get something out of my car. He got all puffed up and hollered at me that I was lying and that I was fixing to drive and that he hated when people lie to him. I said I'm not sure what all is going on out here but I've done nothing wrong. I came to get my phone to call my sister to come pick me up. He said he'll be watching for me to get in my car and "you'll be mine then". I looked toward the door and the waitress was motioning me to come back inside. I'm a short small gal and the officer was definitely beside himself standing over me like he was ready to punch me out. He even had his fists raised. Actually, I was terrified at that point that I might be attacked by him. He turned to look at the other officer putting the patron in the squad car and I said "she needs me" (the waitress at the door) and I turned and walked back her way. I didn't ask for permission. He just let me go. This was in Durant, OK.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    There is at times a "fine line" where a consensual encounter turns into a detention. A consensual encounter is where the person agrees to talk to police, etc., when there is no legal obligation on thier part.

    Here, however, it seems it was a clear case of a bully officer flashing his badge around.

    This is why they do it, the average person is not familiar with the 4th AM in detail and they know that person is afraid they will be arrested if they do not comply.

    If you wish, you can make a complaint to the internal affairs division/Chief and ask them to articulate why you were "seized" under the 4th AM, when not even a "reasonable suspicion", the basis for an investigatory stop, also known as a Terry stop, presented itself for such.

    My guess is though, the officer will LIE, even if it is investigated, that is how they shield themselves.

    I am a great fan of police, as they have a thankless job, but I can not stand crooked cops.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    I want to be better prepared in case this were to happen again. I admit I am one of those not totally familiar with the 4th AM. Should I ask the officer why he is approaching me and if I am required to answer his questions? This might clarify whether his approach was a citizen encounter or a seizure. He did not indicate was required to answer his questions, however, I did not believe I was free to leave. Who would with a 230lb man at least a foot taller standing over and looking down at a 5' 100lb woman? Should I express to him that his demeanor is frightening to me? I'm not sure what good that would do other than to confirm his elevated testerone level. Is the restaurant required to show him alcohol receipts? Can the officer use the receipt info, even if only one drink, to warrant reasonable suspicion in order to arrest someone and charge them with PI even though there was no behavior that would warrant the encounter? I heard a horror story about a tall fellow in Addison who stepped off a curb to get around some overgrown tree limbs. The officer claimed he had stumbled and therefore was arrested for PI. He spent $5000 to get cleared of that incident. I don't have that kind of money laying around to be spent defending myself against a crooked policeman. Had I been arrested but found not guilty, can I sue for damages (lawyer/court fees)? I too am a big fan of the police, male or female. On occasion, I even buy their dinners in a restaurant.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    Quote Quoting albeitme
    View Post
    I want to be better prepared in case this were to happen again. I admit I am one of those not totally familiar with the 4th AM. Should I ask the officer why he is approaching me and if I am required to answer his questions? This might clarify whether his approach was a citizen encounter or a seizure. He did not indicate was required to answer his questions, however, I did not believe I was free to leave.
    If the behavior is ever repeated, do just that, say "Am I under investigation". If the answer is a no on his part, you can leave, if a yes on his part, then it is without any doubt a seizure under the 4th AM and must be "reasonable". If there are no facts to support a reasonable detention, that is a violation of your 4th AM rights, yes.


    Who would with a 230lb man at least a foot taller standing over and looking down at a 5' 100lb woman? Should I express to him that his demeanor is frightening to me?
    You can yes, as a citizen has a 1st AM right to do so.


    Is the restaurant required to show him alcohol receipts?
    I can not fathom any law that mandates it, much less upheld if challenged.


    Can the officer use the receipt info, even if only one drink, to warrant reasonable suspicion in order to arrest someone and charge them with PI even though there was no behavior that would warrant the encounter?
    An arrest and or citation requires "probable cause", not reasonable suspicion. A receipt showing one drink would not provide even a constitutional reason to seize on the street, much less arrest.

    Had I been arrested but found not guilty, can I sue for damages (lawyer/court fees)?
    An aquittal is not necessarily an indication of a false arrest. If one were found not guilty, it may be a +, and would be deserving of speaking to a lawyer to review ALL the facts, yes.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    Thank you for your answers. You have been a big help.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    You can argue any and all constitutional amendments all day long... But the way I see it, with or without the restaurant allowing the officer to review receipts, he and/or his partner(s) can park outside the restaurant, follow patrons around after they leave, monitor them for sign of being under the influence... etc. So you're not being scrutinized based on what's on your receipt, instead, you're being scrutinized based on the fact that you left an establishment that serves alcohol. And at the end of the day, there is nothing inherently illegal about that!

    As far as I'm concerned, if you're worried about being caught drinking and driving... Don't drink and drive. Whether its one drink or a whole bottle, it really doesn't matter especially if you're 5 ft, 100 lbs, which would suggest that depending on the size of the drink (and we all know that the size of a margarita can vary from one place to another) as to whether or not you will show any signs of being impaired.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    Yes but simply because a person walks out of a place that sells booze is not a constitutional reason to investigate a person who is showing no signs of impairment.

    A "Terry stop" requires a "reasonable suspicion" a person has violated, is violating, or will violate a law.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Public Intoxication

    I'm with you on both points, BOR.... So long as we're talking scope & definitions of the key terms you mentioned.

    And far be it for me to argue constitutional matters with you... But I still think I have a valid point or two....

    Quote Quoting BOR
    View Post
    Yes but simply because a person walks out of a place that sells booze is not a constitutional reason to investigate a person who is showing no signs of impairment.
    I never suggested it was a reason to investigate... However, what's to prevent the officer from initiating a conversation with the restaurant patron? If that were to happen, then the patron has the option to answer, not answer, get into their vehicle and drive off..... etc. Alternatively, she could have simply asked the officer (as you suggested): "am I being investigated?" Or "am I being detained?"... In this case, albeitme decided to go back to the restaurant. (Bad move, IMO, then again, under the circumstances, I don't know what I would have done.... Probably picked up my phone and called a cab...).

    Point is, I highly doubt that the officer was looking for a specific answer (or the content of an answer). Instead, he was looking at the manner the question was answered (slurred speech/eye contact/red eyes.... etc) in other words, he was testing the OP's demeanor and reaction.

    Quote Quoting BOR
    View Post
    Yes but simply because a person walks out of a place that sells booze is not a constitutional reason to investigate a person who is showing no signs of impairment.

    A "Terry stop" requires a "reasonable suspicion" a person has violated, is violating, or will violate a law.
    There was no terry stop, there was no "investigation" per se.... The officer did not have enough reason to do either.

    It certainly sounds like he was fishing for a reason though! While it does sound like he may have been rude (or billigerant as per the OP's description), the officer simply asked a few questions <and under the circumstances, he is not barred from doing so>... Furthermore, the question need not be related to driving or public intoxication either. He could simply ask "how was the food? Good tacos? How about the beans?".

    In the meantime, the OP could have simply walked away <and under the circumstances she was not barred from doing so> (in fact it sounds like she did just that by walking back into the restaurant).

    Last but not least, and In addition to all the options listed above, OP could have simply gotten in her car and driven away... Is there anything that would prevent the officer from getting in his and following? Again, no reasonable suspicion.... No reason to investigate, and no reason to make a traffic stop (yet). But that doesn't mean he can't follow!

    I could be wrong... And if so, I'm sure you'll correct me

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