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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    6

    Default Can I Use Force Against a Parent Trying to Collect Her Child

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: California....
    A few months ago my brother "ryan" and his wife "heather" got devorced. They had arranged meeting times and places to pick up and drop off my 2 year old nephew "ryan jr". One day heather didnt show up so my brother contacted heathers mom. Heathers mom got a hold of heather and was told to take my brother over to heathers house to pick up my ryan jr. When my brother got there nobody was watching my ryan jr. and he was covered in his own fecal matter ......A long custody trial is going on right now. The ex wife heather has had custody taken from her and was given drug tests wich came up posative for meth...she was given supervised visits wich she hasnt showed up for in 2 months.
    She has another daughter who was also taken from her. Yesterday she went over to the daughters fathers family's house acompanied by 2 large men looking for her daughter. It appeared nobody was home but there was actually an 85 year old woman and a mentally disabled 21 year old boy. Heather went into the house screaming, "Wheres my daughter!" When she realised her daughter was nowhere to be found she started grabbing valubles and taking them out to her car. Mind you an 85 year old woman was sitting there horrified watching all of this.

    My real question is...I babysit my nephew Ryan Jr. for my brother while hes at work. My brother has full custody. Im worried Heather will show up to my house with the 2 druggy friends that were with her when she broke into her daughters fathers family's home and burglerised it. At what point could i defend myself with a firearm. I will never let her get my 2 year old nephew and take him into her druggy lifestyle. If her and the two men broke into my home would i legally be able to shoot them to keep them from hurting my nephew and I. What if its just Heather..If she breaks into my house in a threatening manner am I allowed to defend myself and my nephew physically? Or will i be arrested for hitting a woman? Keep in mind she has given up her 2 year old son so she can go party and use drugs "meth". She isnt some nice young lady. I was raised to never harm a woman, but she is not a "Lady" she is a crazy drug addict and I know shes capable of horrible things. If she broke in and was trying to take my nephew could i physically defend my family and not get arrested?
    Also im worried she will come and damage my brothers and my truck...we both have verry nice trucks. What should i do if i see her damaging one of them? She is allready going to jail she has a ton of charges against her and warrents out for her arrest....driving under the influence of drugs and alcohol, Fighting a pregnant woman, hurting her mom, Leaving threatening messages on her brothers phone, and this new one of breaking in and stealing her ex husbands stuff... so if she damaged our trucks i fear she wouldnt pay for the damages even if a court told her to...since she will be in jail. Am i legally allowed to subdue her if i see her taking a bat to one of our vehicles on our property?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Allowed to Defend Myself

    and why isn't she in jail now for theft and trespass for the incident where she took things? Have you or anybody else filed for a restraining order?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    6

    Default Re: Allowed to Defend Myself

    The 85 year old is pressing charges. They filed a police report and had pictures taken. The police called heather and told her, "If you bring back the stolen property charges will not be pressed." They were really just going to arrest her for her numerous warrants. I dont know if we can get a restraining order since her and my brother are in the midst of a custody battle "not much of a battle on her part but the courts are making my honest hard working brother jump through tons of hoops. There have been 2 hearings...in the first one she got a dirty meth test and pictures of my nephew covered in his own fecies brought up against her. The judge didnt know if my brother was being honest cause heather is a pretty blond and cleans up verry nice...the judge ended up giving my brother custody and giving heather 2 supervised visits a week. We got 2 more dirty drug tests on her in the time before the next hearing. The judge didnt punish her for the dirty meth tests. He actually gave her 1 more supervised visit a week. Since that hearing she has missed every visit for the last 2 months and has piled up tons of warrants for her arrest. Since were in the middle of the custody thing though i dont know if they would grant a restraning order. The next court date is the end of this month. Im hoping they finally see that shes a horrible person and take away all supervised visits and give us a restraining order against her....Im sick of worrieng every day if shes gonna show up with her druggy friends and try to take my nephew. I litterally have to look over my shoulder all day...sit in my house with doors and windows locked, Im sick and tired of it What sucks is im a big guy and i know i can physically take care of anybody if they broke in not to mention i have a pistol..but if heather breaks in and trys to get my nephew....I would defend him to the death against her and her druggy friends...but will i get arrestested if she breaks in and i deal with her physically. And make no mistake about it...she is an attractive girl but shes big probably 6 inches taller than me and shes pretty thick. She isnt helpless and she is crazy. It would definatly not be a calm talking it over situation on her part.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Allowed to Defend Myself

    about the best guy to answer you, on this forum anyway, is a poster cdwjava. He is a cop in California and is more aware of the nuances of the laws and how they are enforced. He posts fairly regularly.

    If he doesn't post by later this evening, I'll try to get back and at least get into the basic rules of the laws.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Behind a Desk
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    98,846

    Default Re: Can I Use Force Against a Parent Trying to Collect Her Child

    If you are thinking about shooting a mother who tries to get her child from your house, you had best be letting somebody else babysit.

    If the mother shows up you don't have to let her in, and can tell her to leave. If she does not, you can dial 9-1-1. I doubt that anything she does is going to put you in fear for your life; if it comes to that, and the police have not yet arrived, you can use reasonable force. That may fall significantly short of the fantasy "Dirty Harry" act you seem to want to pull.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Can I Use Force Against a Parent Trying to Collect Her Child

    That would be perfect if i could hear it straight from a california officer I would call the cops if Heather showed up...since she has warrents and is crazy. I wouldnt open the door for her since she has no custody and could easily make up a story and get me arrested im sure. But if she broke in what should i do? If she had men with her i wouldnt hesitate to open fire if they broke into my house when i was babysitting my 2 year old nephew. But if it was her alone and she broke in...i wouldnt know how to handle her. Ive seen way to many cases of men going to jail for hitting a woman. This isnt the typical wife beater situation. This is keeping my 2 year old nephew safe from a drugged up crazy "mother" and i hate to even reffer to her as a mother because she isnt much of a mother to him. Hasnt even come to visit him in 2 months.

    Thank you for informing me about the california officer though ill try to find him on here later if i dont here from him today in this thread

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,376

    Default Re: Can I Use Force Against a Parent Trying to Collect Her Child

    As it is right now, you have more than enough evidence for an order of protection to placed against her. If she has supervised visits, that may be rescinded because of her actions with the 85 year old. She seems to be showing herself to be a threat to the well being of the child from what you describe. As a result, the court may be more than willing to accomodate a request for an order of protection. The fact is that, your brother's (is she offically an ex-wife?) custody issue is completely unrelated to the criminal acts she committed towards the 85 y/o, but still may show the court cause to issue an OOP.

    As for your willingness to shoot if needed, I would say calm down. You are full of frustration and anger regarding this woman, and seem to be a little tired of her antics. Protecting your nephew with deadly force could send you to jail easily. You may get a jury to agree with your reasoning as to why you did what you did, but fighting that charge could keep you custody for years while going through a trial.

    My advice is to get the OOP. Call the police if she violates the order, have them arrest her for that incident as well as her warrants. As a result, she'll be in custody long enough for the court to have tiem to deal with the custocy issue.

    I'm just a probation officer, but I deal with family issues all the time. Wait for the cop to come in and provide the police point of view. I like him. He's pretty damn good.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Can I Use Force Against a Parent Trying to Collect Her Child

    @ MR.knowitall I dont want to shoot anybody...And i dont need ur smart a$$ remarks...if your wife fell deep into drugs and had warrants out for her arrest. left your two year old son covered in his own fecies so she could go party...would you feel its safe to let her be around your todler...

    Let me fill you in on an incident i saw unfold. She has horrible vision and isnt suppose to drive at night...she showed up demanding her son and my brother wouldnt let her take him...he was actually huddled over my nephews car seat keeping her from getting it. I was standing in a doorway behind them watching it.....she didnt know i was right there...I saw her start yelling dont hit me!!! take your hands off of me!!....when my brother was still just huddled over my nephew in his car seat..not even moving...she was thinking i was in the other room and would get me to think my brother was beating her.....This woman is the worst kind of person you will ever meet....
    She has chased my brother with knives and all sorts of stuff shes as big as many men i know...and shes not fat just big...so as for being in fear of my life. No im not really in fear but if she was able to knock me out with something she could then just take my nephew and leave.....She has no home and hops around from tweaker to tweaker for places to stay so my nephew would be stuck in a horrible situation....so fear for my life no....fear for my nephews well being. you bet your ass. And the fact that she walked into a house in front or a handicap boy and 85 year old woman and robbed them while they sat by in horror says tons about how crazy she is...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    1,376

    Default Re: Can I Use Force Against a Parent Trying to Collect Her Child

    I'm not being a smart ass. I said if you wanted to shoot in order to protect you nephew. You have issues with her! I asked if they wwere still married because that can make a difference! I mentioned shoot because youasked if it would be legal if you did! Where is my smart ass comment?

    Look, to answer your question. Get an OOP! It's the first step and it makes for a case that if you did have to use some kind of force,(hopefully non-lethal) it was done out of fear for well being. Call the police immediately upon a violation of the OOP! And relax dude. Nobody's making fun of your situation!

    BTW, the OOP has to have your nephew on it as a protected minor.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Can I Use Force Against a Parent Trying to Collect Her Child

    I wouldnt just shoot my nephews mom if she broke into my house. But I wouldnt like to get into a physical altercation with her either. The thing is I live in an old house and for her to break the front door and walk in wouldnt be hard at all. I would of course call the police right when I saw her pull up. But im asking if she did break in would I legally be allowed to subdue her? I grew up learning martial arts so im sure i could subdue her but i honestly dont want her anywhere near me...she injects drugs and i have no clue what kinds of desieses she has come into contact with. A physical encounter could easily resault in blood exchange and I dont want any part of the things she probably has.

    I didnt meen that comment twards you Viol8te. Sorry for the confusion. I ment to say it to Mr.knowitall for saying if i was willing to shoot tweakers that break into my house when im watching my 2 year old nephew, that i shouldnt be watching him...

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