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  1. #1
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    Default Parking Ticket For Car Parked Before Start of Fire Lane

    My question involves a traffic citation from the state of: California.

    I got a parking ticket in Petaluma last weekend and I'm trying to figure out who was in the wrong here. I am at least 20 ft away from the "No Parking" sign and the red curb (see photo). Do parking signs apply "backwards" as well?
    The sign in the photo was the first sign on this street, the street corner is a couple hundred feet behind the car and there are no signs behind me.

    What do you guys think?


  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    You were ticketed for parking in a fire lane, or for some other parking offense? Please identify the statute or ordinance.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    Absent arrows, it applies in both directions (curb paint or not).

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    You were ticketed for parking in a fire lane, or for some other parking offense? Please identify the statute or ordinance.
    It says:

    No Parking - Sign 11.40.040 PMC

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    Absent arrows, it applies in both directions (curb paint or not).
    So where does it actually start? Does it go back around turns as well? Is there a "reasonable distance" or is it based on how far one can see?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    Quote Quoting Petaluma Municipal Code, Sec. 11.40.040. Restricted and prohibited stopping or parking.
    The city traffic engineer is authorized to maintain, by appropriate signs or by paint upon the curb surface, all no stopping zones, no parking areas and restricted parking areas, as defined and described in this chapter.

    When such curb markings or signs are in place no operator of any vehicle shall stop, stand or park such vehicle adjacent to any such legible curb marking or sign in violation of any of the provisions of this chapter. (Ord. 858 NCS §1: prior code §15.10.2.)
    The details; I suspect the citation comes under subsection (H):
    Quote Quoting Petaluma Municipal Code, Sec. 11.40.050 No parking areas designated.
    No operator of any vehicle shall stop, stand, park or leave standing such vehicle in any of the following places, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the direction of a police officer or other authorized officer or traffic sign or signal:

    A. Within any divisional island unless authorized and clearly indicated with appropriate signs or markings;

    B. On either side of any street between the projected property lines of any public walk, public steps, street or thoroughfare terminating at such street, when such area is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface;

    C. In an area where the city traffic engineer determines that the parking or stopping of a vehicle would constitute a traffic hazard or would endanger life or property, when such area is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface;

    D. In any area designated by the traffic committee as a no parking area, when such area is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface;

    E. Upon, along or across any railway track in such manner as to hinder, delay or obstruct the movement of any car traveling upon such track;

    F. In an area where the parking or stopping of any vehicle would constitute a traffic hazard or would endanger life or property;

    G. On any street or highway where the use of such street or highway or a portion thereof is necessary for the cleaning, repair or construction of the street or highway or the installation of underground utilities or where the use of the street or highway or any portion thereof is authorized for a purpose other than the normal flow of traffic or where the use of the street or highway or any portion thereof is necessary for the movement of equipment, articles or structures of unusual size, and the parking of such vehicle would prohibit or interfere with such use or movement; provided, that signs giving notice of such no parking are erected or placed at least twenty-four hours prior to the effective time of such no parking;

    H. At any place within twenty feet of a point on the curb immediately opposite the mid-block end of a safety zone, when such place is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface;

    I. At any place within twenty feet of a crosswalk at an intersection (in the central traffic district or) in any business district when such place is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface except that a bus may stop at a designated bus stop;

    J. Within twenty feet of the approach to any traffic signal, boulevard stop sign or official electric flashing device.
    I suspect most drivers from outside of California would believe that the "no parking zone" ended with the red paint. I'll let the Californians speak for themselves.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    Quote Quoting fmicle
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    It says:

    No Parking - Sign 11.40.040 PMC
    11.40.040 Restricted and prohibited stopping or parking.
    The city traffic engineer is authorized to maintain, by appropriate signs or by paint upon the curb surface, all no stopping zones, no parking areas and restricted parking areas, as defined and described in this chapter.

    When such curb markings or signs are in place no operator of any vehicle shall stop, stand or park such vehicle adjacent to any such legible curb marking or sign in violation of any of the provisions of this chapter. (Ord. 858 NCS §1: prior code §15.10.2.)

    Quote Quoting fmicle
    View Post
    So where does it actually start? Does it go back around turns as well? Is there a "reasonable distance" or is it based on how far one can see?
    11.40.050 No parking areas designated.
    No operator of any vehicle shall stop, stand, park or leave standing such vehicle in any of the following places, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the direction of a police officer or other authorized officer or traffic sign or signal:

    A. Within any divisional island unless authorized and clearly indicated with appropriate signs or markings;

    B. On either side of any street between the projected property lines of any public walk, public steps, street or thoroughfare terminating at such street, when such area is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface;

    C. In an area where the city traffic engineer determines that the parking or stopping of a vehicle would constitute a traffic hazard or would endanger life or property, when such area is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface;

    D. In any area designated by the traffic committee as a no parking area, when such area is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface;

    E. Upon, along or across any railway track in such manner as to hinder, delay or obstruct the movement of any car traveling upon such track;

    F. In an area where the parking or stopping of any vehicle would constitute a traffic hazard or would endanger life or property;

    G. On any street or highway where the use of such street or highway or a portion thereof is necessary for the cleaning, repair or construction of the street or highway or the installation of underground utilities or where the use of the street or highway or any portion thereof is authorized for a purpose other than the normal flow of traffic or where the use of the street or highway or any portion thereof is necessary for the movement of equipment, articles or structures of unusual size, and the parking of such vehicle would prohibit or interfere with such use or movement; provided, that signs giving notice of such no parking are erected or placed at least twenty-four hours prior to the effective time of such no parking;

    H. At any place within twenty feet of a point on the curb immediately opposite the mid-block end of a safety zone, when such place is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface;

    I. At any place within twenty feet of a crosswalk at an intersection (in the central traffic district or) in any business district when such place is indicated by appropriate signs or by red paint upon the curb surface except that a bus may stop at a designated bus stop;

    J. Within twenty feet of the approach to any traffic signal, boulevard stop sign or official electric flashing device.

    (Ord. 858 NCS §1: prior code § 15.10.3.)

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    Hmmm, sorry if I'm not quite getting it... does this mean that it was probably the opposite curb that made it illegal for me to park there?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    Quote Quoting aaron
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    I suspect most drivers from outside of California would believe that the "no parking zone" ended with the red paint. I'll let the Californians speak for themselves.
    Silly as it may sound, and without seeing how far to the left the red painted curb extends, I assume that it was painted red simply to contrast a darker background for the words "Fire Lane" & "No Parking"... Either way the presence of the sign without an arrow or an indication that the Fire Lane "Starts Here", it would normally cover the entire side of the block where the sign is posted.

    Quote Quoting fmicle
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    Hmmm, sorry if I'm not quite getting it... does this mean that it was probably the opposite curb that made it illegal for me to park there?
    Whether subsection "H" covers it or not, I cannot say. I am leaning more towards subsection "C" and/or "D". Meaning, had it only been the red curb, then yes, you would be legally parked. However, the sign itself prohibits parking on that entire block unless otherwise posted with another sign allowing parking.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    There were a total of 3 No Parking signs on that side of the road, with the first one being the one showing in the photo. The curb was painted red from that point all the way to the end of the street, which was a dead-end. The sign itself says "No Parking - Fire Lane" and the red curb says the same thing "Fire Lane"...

    Here is a different perspective. This pic is taken from a small parking lot behind a gas station, the main access to the station being on the other side of the building on the main road (behind me and the building)


    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    Whether subsection "H" covers it or not, I cannot say. I am leaning more towards subsection "C" and/or "D". Meaning, had it only been the red curb, then yes, you would be legally parked. However, the sign itself prohibits parking on that entire block unless otherwise posted with another sign allowing parking.
    Could one argue that the sign + red curb setup makes it confusing? To me, it felt like the red curb was reinforcing the fact that the "no parking" fire lane started there. Was it a coincidence that the red paint starts right at the first sign? As I said, the red curb started there and followed all the way to the end of that dead-end alley. My guesstimate is that on that block, the first 1/3rd was not painted red and the following 2/3rds were.

    Should I try to contest it and see what they say? Or just let it go?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fire Lane Parking Ticket

    Quote Quoting fmicle
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    There were a total of 3 No Parking signs on that side of the road, with the first one being the one showing in the photo. The curb was painted red from that point all the way to the end of the street, which was a dead-end. The sign itself says "No Parking - Fire Lane" and the red curb says the same thing "Fire Lane"...

    Here is a different perspective. This pic is taken from a small parking lot behind a gas station, the main access to the station being on the other side of the building on the main road (behind me and the building)



    Could one argue that the sign + red curb setup makes it confusing? To me, it felt like the red curb was reinforcing the fact that the "no parking" fire lane started there. Was it a coincidence that the red paint starts right at the first sign? As I said, the red curb started there and followed all the way to the end of that dead-end alley. My guesstimate is that on that block, the first 1/3rd was not painted red and the following 2/3rds were.
    Again, absent any indication on that sign that parking is prohibited from the location of the sign going forwards, the sign, by itself, means that parking is prohibited on that entire side of the block where the sign is located.

    Quote Quoting fmicle
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    Should I try to contest it and see what they say? Or just let it go?
    I assume that you've got nothing to lose (no additional fees/costs) by trying. Worse they can do is say "no"...

    While it doesn't add much or take away from what's been posted, here's the related code section from the California Vehicle code regarding "Fire Lanes":

    22500.1. In addition to Section 22500, no person shall stop, park, or leave standing any vehicle, whether attended or unattended, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a peace officer or official traffic control device along the edge of any highway, at any curb, or in any location in a publicly or privately owned or operated off-street parking facility, designated as a fire lane by the fire department or fire district with jurisdiction over the area in which the place is located.
    The designation shall be indicated (1) by a sign posted immediately adjacent to, and visible from, the designated place clearly stating in letters not less than one inch in height that the place is a fire lane, (2) by outlining or painting the place in red and, in contrasting color, marking the place with the words "FIRE LANE", which are clearly visible from a vehicle, or (3) by a red curb or red paint on the edge of the roadway upon which is clearly marked the words "FIRE LANE".

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