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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default Clipper Card Caltrain Fare Evasion

    My question involves traffic court in the State of: CA

    When autoloading my monthly pass for Caltrain, Clipper deducted cash fare from my card but did not refund this money when I tagged off. This left me with a negative balance. 7 days later, they charged me for a monthly pass, because my payment information had finally cleared their system. When I tried to use the card, it was cited as being invalid. The following day, I received an e-mail from Clipper stating that my card was valid, and all I would need to do was tag on and off (this was untrue).

    The citation I received on the train did not contain any infraction circled. 10 days later, I received a "correction" in the mail, signed by a person who I've never met who wasn't on the train that day.

    I don't see how I can be charged with "fare evasion," when I paid for a monthly pass 5 days before. I guess you could argue that I received a slight "discount" on that first ride because my Clipper cash balance went negative, but since I was signed up for autoloading monthly pass at that time, I think my money should have been refunded. In fact, the fare for this first trip was refunded later by Clipper, but only after the citation. If they'd refunded the money before, I wouldn't have received the citation and my clipper card would've been valid.

    How should I argue this in court?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Clipper Card Caltrain Fare Evasion

    Quote Quoting cornellouis
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    7 days later, they charged me for a monthly pass, because my payment information had finally cleared their system.
    Well, if payment was not received by them until 7 days later, wouldn't that mean that your monthly pass was not valid on the date you were cited?

    And yes, I do realize that you can still ride even with a negative balance on your card, but there is a limit, isn't there? So how far in the negative was your card balance?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Clipper Card Caltrain Fare Evasion

    You can't tag in with a negative balance, there has to be a buck and a quarter (but I'm not telling him that) on the card. The fare subtracted at that point can then go negative. Yes, even with a monthly pass if there is a negative balance on the card you can't tag in.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Clipper Card Caltrain Fare Evasion

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    You can't tag in with a negative balance, there has to be a buck and a quarter (but I'm not telling him that) on the card. The fare subtracted at that point can then go negative. Yes, even with a monthly pass if there is a negative balance on the card you can't tag in.
    You're absolutely right... It can go into the negative but only on one ride and depending on how many zones you cross, and you have to start with a minimum of +$1.25.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Clipper Card Caltrain Fare Evasion

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Well, if payment was not received by them until 7 days later, wouldn't that mean that your monthly pass was not valid on the date you were cited?

    And yes, I do realize that you can still ride even with a negative balance on your card, but there is a limit, isn't there? So how far in the negative was your card balance?
    To clarify, payment for the monthly pass was received by Clipper on the 9th of the month. I received a citation on the 14th of the month. The 7 days is 7 days after I tagged on / off at the beginning of the month. During the period when they hadn't yet charged me for a monthly pass, I either drove to work or purchased individual daily passes.

    I know that you can't tag with a negative balance. At the beginning of the month, I didn't have a negative balance. I only had a negative balance after the first tag on / tag off cycle. Usually that cycle refunds the trip fare and autoloads a monthly pass, but in my case, because the payment info had changed recently, it did *not* refund the fare, but 7 days later it *did* charge me for a monthly pass (with no additional tagging).

    Clipper refunded the trip fare on the 25th of the month, giving me a positive balance and a valid monthly pass (useful for a whole 5 days!), but that was well after I received the citation.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Clipper Card Caltrain Fare Evasion

    The system's unbelievably confusing.
    Unlike every other electronic pass system where credit is applied immediately, there's a delay of 3-5 days between when payment is received and applied to your card. Even after that, you still have to tag your card at a station in order for it to be reflected on your balance online. So -- you have to purchase travel to even know how much credit you have available. Additional you can't add credit at the station (presumably because people would be confused as to why the money they just paid doesn't let them travel on the same day.)

    Its hard to imagine the rationale for such a complicated system.

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