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  1. #1
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    Feb 2011
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    Default Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    I've seen variations of this so I'll ask my specific question. I was driving a friends vehicle (important). I made what I believe was a safe right turn on a Red light. There is no limit line and right on red is legal. There was no one in cross walk and there were no other cars in the intersection at the time. I had previously stopped as did the car in front of me to allow the intersection to clear, once the intersection had cleared both the driver in front of me and myself accelerated through the right turn, I unfortunately managed to time it as the light changed from amber to red and was in the intersection as the light turned red and was captured on camera as turning right on a red light.

    I did the correct thing and told my friend immediately and two weeks later he received the citation. If this were a reasonable ticket I'd just pay it but I believe this is somewhere in the tune of $450.00. Understand I feel strongly this is a profit center for the City and if they truly felt strongly about personal safety they would have taken the money invested in the cameras and installed a metered turn lane, increased the yellow light timing or simply posted a no turn on red policy completely.

    That as it is I will not inconvenience my friend. By simply stating "I was not driving" does this go away for him? I wont ask him to go to court, fill out lengthy forms I've already inconvenienced him.

    My question is if he puts my information down as the driver and I go to court do I have the right to demand an opportunity to "confront" and cross-examine a witnesses (him)? He would not be at the court so I am assuming this would be thrown out on a technicality? Who else can I ask to examine, since its a camera is there an officer that will be present?

  2. #2
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    Feb 2010
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    CT & IL
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    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    what state? They asking him to ID the driver? He can say he lends his car out to alot of people & cannot recall for that date. Its a snitch ticket request ... sounds like.

  3. #3
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    The camera is set up to detect you ENTERING the intersection on the red. I suspect you're estimation of the timing is off (or you idea where the intersection starts). You do know AMBER is to warn you the red is about to happen, rather than hurry up and get through before the light turns red?

    You didn't bother to actually answer the question about what state this is involved in, so we can't get too specific. Usually if the owner wasn't driving they don't have to "go to court." They usually declare it wasn't them by mail, optionally giving the name of the driver. Some states want copies of your driver's license ,etc ....

    You don't have anything to "confront" because there is no human testimony. You may try to discover or otherwise challenge the evidence against you (the red light camera system), but frankly nothing you said indicates you weren't guilty. Your idea of what you fell is safe matters NOT. Only thing that matters is that you travelled into the intersection on RED. The fact you stopped one car back from the stop line doesn't qualify.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    Sorry state is CA. In CA at least Sacramento County when the citation is sent there is a box to check "not me" BUT they ask for the driver information including address, CDL and other information.

    I've not see anything in the CA law that states you must stop within 10 feet of the limit line (which does not exist in this intersection) it just states you must stop prior to the limit line or if not present before the crosswalk. Without video (unsure if this is available) how could it be known if I stopped way before the intersection and then continuing through the intersection and proceeding with reasonable safety. Which is what I believe I did.

    I am sure its know but here's the VC section http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21453.htm

  5. #5
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    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    Quote Quoting BVL
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    I've not see anything in the CA law that states you must stop within 10 feet of the limit line (which does not exist in this intersection) it just states you must stop prior to the limit line or if not present before the crosswalk. Without video (unsure if this is available) how could it be known if I stopped way before the intersection and then continuing through the intersection and proceeding with reasonable safety. Which is what I believe I did.
    The video (and there should be a link printed on the citation itself, otherwise, you can contact the issuing agency for instructions on where/how/when you can view it) will likely show that you rolled through the intersection. 21453 requires you to stop at or before the limit line/crosswalk/near side of the intersection (read the code section that you linked). Even if a video is not available, the photos (which should be on the citation itself) taken before and after you crossed the limit line/the crosswalk/the near side of the intersection will likely show your estimated speed as well as the time period between the photo that was taken before and the photo taken after you crossed the limit line/crosswalk/near side of the intersection.

    BTW, the same requirement applies to an intersection controlled by a stop sign. even if you stop one car length behind the line, you are still required to stop at or before the limit line/crosswalk/near side of the intersection.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    8

    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    your friend btw is not legally required to identify you, as long as the photo doesnt look like him, he should be fine

  7. #7
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    CT & IL
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    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    Quote Quoting wb6vpm
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    your friend btw is not legally required to identify you, as long as the photo doesnt look like him, he should be fine
    Its an inquiry for a snitch ticket...put Obama as the driver

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    616

    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    How good a friend?

    You can both beat it, but it will take some effort by him. Tell him you'll spend the $450 on something you can do together as opposed to for the fine. I'd personally want to avoid the points.

    Once he names and identifies you, it is a simple red light camera ticket, and there are many threads on this. Do you have pictures/video of the evidence?

  9. #9
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    Feb 2010
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    CT & IL
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    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    You do know AMBER is to warn you the red is about to happen, rather than hurry up and get through before the light turns red?
    People in Florida see a yellow as "speed up" as long as its not 5 secs into the red, I'm fine. Hit the gas immediately upon a green light in Fl at your own risk. Its just the culture there, right or wrong.

    No state listed so not alot of help is going to be coming to the OP's way...red light cameras? errrrrr.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: Right Turn on Red Light Camera

    I suspect this is in California... So these answers are California specific:

    Quote Quoting BVL
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    There was no one in cross walk and there were no other cars in the intersection at the time.
    Irrelevant. neither is your stopping one car length behind the intersection.

    Quote Quoting BVL
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    That as it is I will not inconvenience my friend.
    That may not be so easy.

    Quote Quoting BVL
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    By simply stating "I was not driving" does this go away for him?
    Depends on what you mean by "simply stating 'I was not driving'"... The citation will include an affidavit that your friend can complete. However, if he only states "I was not driving" without identifying who was driving at the time, most if not all courts will reject the affidavit as "incomplete". At which point in time, his court appearance on or before the due date indicated on the citation will be required.

    Quote Quoting BVL
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    I wont ask him to go to court, fill out lengthy forms I've already inconvenienced him.
    Unfortunately, that choice may not be up to you... If this is in California, and if he's received a citation with a court date on it, he is required to either: (1) pay the fine by the due date indicated thereon, (2) complete the affidavit (as mentioned above) and return it in a timely manner, or (3) appear in court on the date indicated.

    Quote Quoting BVL
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    My question is if he puts my information down as the driver and I go to court do I have the right to demand an opportunity to "confront" and cross-examine a witnesses (him)?
    If by "him" you mean your friend, then no because he is not a "witness" of the alleged violation. You can certainly bring him and question him as your own witness and as part of your defense case although I'm not sure how that would help your defense in any way. If, on the other hand, you intend to question the officer who issued the citation, then yes, that is within your rights... your friend can identify you as the driver, the citation will likely be re-issued in your name, you can appear in court, plead "not guilty" and have a trial scheduled, and exercise your "right to question the citing officer".

    Quote Quoting BVL
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    He would not be at the court so I am assuming this would be thrown out on a technicality?
    If your friend identifies you as the driver, and your face matches the picture on the citation, then I'm not so sure which "technicality" you think will get this dismissed for you!

    Quote Quoting BVL
    View Post
    Who else can I ask to examine, since its a camera is there an officer that will be present?
    Yes, if you plead not guilty at the arraignment, the citing officer will likely appear at the trial at which time you can cross examine him/her.

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