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  1. #1

    Default Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    My question involves real estate located in the State of: Washington
    We moved into our house about 7 years ago. At that time, we noticed that the fence between our house and the one next door was going to need replacing someday. When we approached the neighbor about splitting the cost of materials, he told us "it's YOUR fence. You're not getting a dime out of me." He claimed that the previous owner built the fence and that it was on OUR property (though we have no proof other than his word, which is questionable). He claimed that he didn't like fences and couldn't care less if it wasn't even there.

    We left it alone. A couple of months ago, 2 sections (about 8 feet each) fell over in a wind storm. Before I could do anything about it, he was out there propping it back up from his side. He essentially put it back the way it was before the storm.

    Now we've received a letter from our HOA because he filed a complaint against us for not repairing the fence.

    He still refuses to pay for any of the replacement costs. And although he claims the fence is "ours", he has not only enjoyed the benefit of having it in place to contain HIS dogs, but he has had hanging plants attached to "our" fence for as long as we've lived here... AND he has a small fence section w/gate connecting "our" fence to his house, thus fully enclosing his yard.

    Does his ongoing use and benefit of this boundary fence (regardless of whether it is on the property line or a couple of inches on our side of it) oblige him of joint maintenance?

    For someone who "hates fences", he has put an awful lot of effort into this particular one... I just want him to pay for half of a replacement.

    What can I do? I know folks will say "hire a surveyor", but if we just assume that he's right about the fence being on our side of the property line, isn't he still responsible since he's USING our fence?

    Thanks for your advice.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    Quote Quoting GreatRewards
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    My question involves real estate located in the State of: Washington
    We moved into our house about 7 years ago. At that time, we noticed that the fence between our house and the one next door was going to need replacing someday. When we approached the neighbor about splitting the cost of materials, he told us "it's YOUR fence. You're not getting a dime out of me." He claimed that the previous owner built the fence and that it was on OUR property (though we have no proof other than his word, which is questionable). He claimed that he didn't like fences and couldn't care less if it wasn't even there.

    We left it alone. A couple of months ago, 2 sections (about 8 feet each) fell over in a wind storm. Before I could do anything about it, he was out there propping it back up from his side. He essentially put it back the way it was before the storm.

    Now we've received a letter from our HOA because he filed a complaint against us for not repairing the fence.

    He still refuses to pay for any of the replacement costs. And although he claims the fence is "ours", he has not only enjoyed the benefit of having it in place to contain HIS dogs, but he has had hanging plants attached to "our" fence for as long as we've lived here... AND he has a small fence section w/gate connecting "our" fence to his house, thus fully enclosing his yard.

    Does his ongoing use and benefit of this boundary fence (regardless of whether it is on the property line or a couple of inches on our side of it) oblige him of joint maintenance?

    For someone who "hates fences", he has put an awful lot of effort into this particular one... I just want him to pay for half of a replacement.

    What can I do? I know folks will say "hire a surveyor", but if we just assume that he's right about the fence being on our side of the property line, isn't he still responsible since he's USING our fence?

    Thanks for your advice.
    NO, he is NOT using your fence.

    I have a similar situation. I got a fence that happened to be 4" over onto my next door neighbor's property, and it was put up by the developer of my house who built it in 1986. This was discovered when the new buyer did a survey about two years ago, but due to "adverse possession", in NY that would be 10 years, he cannot ask me to remove it.

    When I heard about it, the prior owner whom I got friendly with said they did not care for the fence, said so to the developer, but he put it up anyway. It wasn't the nicest looking fence either.

    A year ago, we had a tornado here, and the fence got bent over leaning into the neighbors side. So he asked me to fix it before it fell over. Technically, the fence is located ON HIS PROPERTY, but it is my fence to fix.

    He did try pushing the fence back up so it won't fall over onto his vehicles. Now, if I use your logic, he is now USING MY FENCE, and he has to pay half for fixing it. NO WAY!!

    My understanding this fence is on the thorn on the side of the prior owner, and this guy is extremely unhappy because it is 4" into his property, and he can't do anything about it because of adverse possession. Am I going to make a pig of myself to add insult to injury, saying his attempts to prevent the fence from falling onto his vehicles as "using my fence".

    I spent several hundred dollars repairing it, and apologized for taking so long as fence companies were all booked up after the tonando. Not only is it legally your responsibilty to fix it, but I would also do so in the name of neighborliness.

    If the situation was reversed, a neighbor puts up an ugly fence you don't need or want, it falls down, think what you would say if he asks you "I think you have to chip in half since you used this fence".

  3. #3

    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    Quote Quoting SChinFChin
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    NO, he is NOT using your fence.

    If the situation was reversed, a neighbor puts up an ugly fence you don't need or want, it falls down, think what you would say if he asks you "I think you have to chip in half since you used this fence".
    You seem to be missing my point. His gate section is actually connected to one of the posts on my fence. He has tied his own gate into "my" fence, so as to finish enclosing his OWN backyard. I'm willing to bet money that if he were to sell his house, he'd certainly list it as having a "fully fenced yard", which would be a lie. In many states, according to what I've read so far, this, alone, would constitute joint obligation to maintain. I'm just not sure what the exact law is here in Washington, and I'm just trying to find out yes or no without having to pay an attorney.

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    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    to start with, for fun, I would tell the guy you are going to replace it so he needs to remove his attachment to your fence. Then, once he does, ignore him for awhile.


    this is the best I can come up with for fences. Not sure it it applicable as it is basically written concerning animal fencing. If it can be applied to your case, you need to find out where the property boundary line is. If the fence is on the boundary line, they you can force him to either build 1/2 the fence or pay for half the fence.

    Washington fence law

  5. #5

    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    Actually, we did that. We went and told him we were taking it down and he needed to remove everything from it immediately, including his gate.

    The problem with the "do nothing" approach is this: he filed a complaint with the HOA claiming that WE are in violation of one of the CC&R clauses that says we have to maintain "all improvements, including fences". The letter says we have 30 days to comply or face fines.

    Here's what I'm thinking. What if we simply argue back that the fence is not "ours"? Right now, the only evidence that the fence is NOT on the property line is HIS word. As far as we know, it IS on the property line, and he is simply trying to get his neighbors to pay for HIS fully-fenced yard by "claiming" the fence isn't his.

    There really is no question that the fence needs repairing/replacing. The question really is who owns it. He says *I* own it, and I say we *both* own it. The fact that he has his other fencing (exact same style) attached to it (not to mention the effort he's made over the years to keep the fence standing) seems to support my argument of joint ownership over his own argument.

    In an urban housing development with fences throughout, wouldn't it be commonly assumed that fences are shared by adjoining properties? If he wants to get out of the financial responsibility of maintaining the fence, then wouldn't the burden of proof fall on him? Why should I pay for a survey, just because he "says" the fence is mine? His word bears no more weight that mine, right?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    there appears to be a lot of fighting over fences. As such, many people recommend setting the fence line in on a persons property a few inches. If that is the case with yours, it would not be a true boundary line fence.

    Without a survey or proof of who installed it (permit maybe?) it is impossible to tell who is liable for the fence. The best beginning for a solution is to have a survey done. As you said, without that, you can argue it might be his fence. The BIG problem you do with that is; you are also acquiescing to the placement of the property line and as such, may give away some of your property.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    Quote Quoting GreatRewards
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    Actually, we did that. We went and told him we were taking it down and he needed to remove everything from it immediately, including his gate.

    The problem with the "do nothing" approach is this: he filed a complaint with the HOA claiming that WE are in violation of one of the CC&R clauses that says we have to maintain "all improvements, including fences". The letter says we have 30 days to comply or face fines.

    Here's what I'm thinking. What if we simply argue back that the fence is not "ours"? Right now, the only evidence that the fence is NOT on the property line is HIS word. As far as we know, it IS on the property line, and he is simply trying to get his neighbors to pay for HIS fully-fenced yard by "claiming" the fence isn't his.

    There really is no question that the fence needs repairing/replacing. The question really is who owns it. He says *I* own it, and I say we *both* own it. The fact that he has his other fencing (exact same style) attached to it (not to mention the effort he's made over the years to keep the fence standing) seems to support my argument of joint ownership over his own argument.

    In an urban housing development with fences throughout, wouldn't it be commonly assumed that fences are shared by adjoining properties? If he wants to get out of the financial responsibility of maintaining the fence, then wouldn't the burden of proof fall on him? Why should I pay for a survey, just because he "says" the fence is mine? His word bears no more weight that mine, right?
    You can give it a try if you want, force him, but it can start a war.

    This guy that owns the house next to me, who I have the fence 4" into his property I mentioned above tried the same thing on two other neighbors on the other side and in back. Those neighbors are elderly widows, one in her 80's and struggling on social security.

    The fences between the property is kind of old, but holding up, and he tells them he wants to rip the fences down and put in a "nice brick or cinderblock" one, and he wants them to pay half. One of the elderly women came over and asked me about it, I told her he told me the same thing, and I told him "my fence" looks fine, and that was before the tornado, and to get lost. From what I heard later, she told him to get lost as well, and I heard nothing more about it for a while.

    This guy is a real estate property speculator, the house is held in an LLC, according to him, he owns a dozen other properties, and I am suspecting that he wanted to have the fences put in, and then sell the place. He totally re-did the inside of the house.

    If you could find the previous owners of your property or the ones next store, or the fence company, you can try asking them. This speculator next store first tried to tell me the story the fence is his, but is on the property line, is in bad shape, so he wants me to pay half to have it replaced. It is a chain link fence, the fence company's name is on the fence after all these years, so I called them up. They came by, took a look, the poles are on my side, and usually the flat surface faces out, so I was told, NO, this fence was put up by the prior owner of your (my)property, but they have to search their records to see who paid for it.

    The prior owners of the house next store left me their new new phone number down in South Carolina in case there are problems, I'm in NY, so I called them up and asked if they paid for half the fence. They said NO, and told us they didn't even want the fence put up in the first place, didn't care for chain link fences, and wouldn't have bothered if they have to pay half. They were actually shocked to learn years later it was 4" into their property.

    I'm telling you all of this as all the neighbors around are pestered by this neighbor of mine trying to get everyone to pay for half of his fences, and everyone told him so far to get lost.

    While I have heard someone can make people pay for half the fence if it is on the property line, no one on the street is buying this guy's story that we all have to chip in and have his fences re-done, so he can make a killing before he goes. In fact, all of us are going to chip in for lawyers if this guy starts up on us again.

    I just think it's plain wrong that if someone doesn't want a fence, if your neighbor's story is true, the guy next store sticks the finger at you, puts one up anyway, and then years later, make you pay half for it's replacement. It makes it doubly humiliating.

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    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    Quote Quoting SChinFChin
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    I have a similar situation. I got a fence that happened to be 4" over onto my next door neighbor's property, and it was put up by the developer of my house who built it in 1986. This was discovered when the new buyer did a survey about two years ago, but due to "adverse possession", in NY that would be 10 years, he cannot ask me to remove it.
    Not because the passage of ten years automatically gives you title, but because you would counter-claim for adverse possession?

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    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    Not because the passage of ten years automatically gives you title, but because you would counter-claim for adverse possession?
    Yes.

    This new owner didn't ask or say anything to me at all about it himself. The prior owner next store told me this very issue came up at her closing, the buyer (new owner) was making noises and was quite upset about it after seeing the survey, and his lawyer told him to forget it as it's passed ten years. Presumably, I would counter-claim if the issue ever came up. I wasn't there so I don't know what was exactly said, but I made a mental note of it.

    This is another reason why I am somewhat suspicious of him, and his desire to go around and try to make all the adjoining neighbors replace their fences. I told him my fence looks just fine to me, and just don't touch it.

    The only thing is he's a construction contractor, and my wife was saying to me that she's wondering if we gone on vacation for a week or two, if we'll find new fence up when we come back, with him taking back his four inches. I have to admit he might be the type of guy who might do it, and I've been wondering what I would do if he did that.

    So the wife was thinking of having our own survey done, with the location of the fence marked in. What do you think of that??

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    Default Re: Can I Legally Force Neighbor to Foot 1/2 Fence Replacement Bill

    So the wife was thinking of having our own survey done, with the location of the fence marked in. What do you think of that??
    "Let's git her done!" channeling Larry the Cable Guy. It's just argel bargel until there is a survey.

    And, if you go away for a week or two and a brand new fence appears on the property line you have a new fence and have lost nothing. AN AP suit for the four inches, if you win, will probably cost you four or five thousand dollars an inch. You can buy property in downtown New York city for less than that per square foot. But it's your choice, of course.

    Your wife, who possibly doesn't have the exact same view of the crisis, has given you good advice. It is never a good idea to take on an adversary without having fully reconnoitered the situation.

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