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  1. #1
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    Feb 2011
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    Default Unsafe Speed Ticket (22350) for Going 20 in 40mph, at Fault for Accident

    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: CA

    Hello,
    I recently rear-ended a car stopped at a red light (I can give more detail if needed) and was at fault for the accident (there was physical damage to his car; we both refused paramedic services at the scene, however he is now claiming injury as well). The officer who came to the scene later, after the cars were towed to the nearby parking lot, was writing the report, but then told me he was required to also write me a ticket for being at fault (is this true?!). He cited me for unsafe speed (22350 VC, Unsafe speed for prevailing conditions), documenting 20mph (which was a number I threw out when he said he just needed to write a speed on the report/citation--I really didn't know what to say but I was definitely not going faster than 20mph) & clear conditions. The accident was on a city street with speed limit of 40mph. Do I have a case in terms of the language of the vehicle code? Or can they use me being at fault for the accident against me?


    V C Section 22350 Basic Speed Law
    Basic Speed Law

    22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.


    Thank you!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    8,006

    Default Re: Unsafe Speed Ticket (22350) for Going 20 in 40mph, at Fault for Accident

    It might be possible to beat it. The wording of the statute makes it illegal to operate your vehicle at a speed that isn't safe. You obviously were going faster than it was safe to because you rear-ended a car stopped at a red light.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Unsafe Speed Ticket (22350) for Going 20 in 40mph, at Fault for Accident

    Quote Quoting 0427
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    Hello,
    I recently rear-ended a car stopped at a red light (I can give more detail if needed) and was at fault for the accident (there was physical damage to his car; we both refused paramedic services at the scene, however he is now claiming injury as well). The officer who came to the scene later, after the cars were towed to the nearby parking lot, was writing the report, but then told me he was required to also write me a ticket for being at fault (is this true?!).
    It might have been required per department policy, but it is not required under state law.

    He cited me for unsafe speed (22350 VC, Unsafe speed for prevailing conditions), documenting 20mph (which was a number I threw out when he said he just needed to write a speed on the report/citation--I really didn't know what to say but I was definitely not going faster than 20mph) & clear conditions. The accident was on a city street with speed limit of 40mph. Do I have a case in terms of the language of the vehicle code? Or can they use me being at fault for the accident against me?
    Well, your being at fault for the collision is the reason for the citation. The safe speed when approaching a vehicle in front of you that is stopped would be 0 MPH.

    The fact that you rear-ended the other guy sort of puts the burden on you to find some other cause for the collision. Do you have a counter-argument at all?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    SF Bay Area
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    625

    Default Re: Unsafe Speed Ticket (22350) for Going 20 in 40mph, at Fault for Accident

    I'll second what cdw said. Unfortunately, CA's current laws and insurance company practices (modeled based on the most likely outcome of a civil case under a given set of circumstances rather than VC) pretty much relieve drivers of any responsibility to ensure safety before slamming on the brakes.

    That being said, I'd be more concerned about the other guy claiming injury than a piddly VC22350 citation.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: Unsafe Speed Ticket (22350) for Going 20 in 40mph, at Fault for Accident

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    The safe speed when approaching a vehicle in front of you that is stopped would be 0 MPH.
    Agreed....

  6. #6
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Unsafe Speed Ticket (22350) for Going 20 in 40mph, at Fault for Accident

    Quote Quoting HonkingAntelope
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    I'll second what cdw said. Unfortunately, CA's current laws and insurance company practices (modeled based on the most likely outcome of a civil case under a given set of circumstances rather than VC) pretty much relieve drivers of any responsibility to ensure safety before slamming on the brakes.
    Not exactly. But, a driver is required by law to drive safely for conditions and with sufficient distance between himself and the vehicle in front of him.

    The alternative would be that drivers would be too scared to stop suddenly to avoid an impact. We cannot have people zipping along bumper-to-bumper as it would not be safe.

    That being said, I'd be more concerned about the other guy claiming injury than a piddly VC22350 citation.
    Yep.

  7. #7
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    Apr 2009
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    Default Re: Unsafe Speed Ticket (22350) for Going 20 in 40mph, at Fault for Accident

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Not exactly. But, a driver is required by law to drive safely for conditions and with sufficient distance between himself and the vehicle in front of him.

    The alternative would be that drivers would be too scared to stop suddenly to avoid an impact. We cannot have people zipping along bumper-to-bumper as it would not be safe.
    By your logic, everyone would have to keep the distance with the assumption that the vehicle in front of them can slam on the brakes and come to a complete stop in the middle of the freeway without any warning or any reason whatsoever at any time. Surely even you realize how absurd that would be.

    I'm not talking about people zipping around with 6" of distance between cars. My point is that one can follow a vehicle well under the 2-second rule and that distance is perfectly safe, assuming the guy in front of you doesn't randomly slam on the brakes. It's one thing to be blamed for a collision when you strike a stopped vehicle or if the other driver brakes hard to avoid a collision. On the other hand, it's patently unjust to be cited for unsafe speed or following too closely when the guy in front of you decides he wants a new rear bumper or just slams on the brakes to "teach that guy a lesson."

    One popular insurance scam in the 90s took advantage of this by piling 5-9 people (aka crash dummies) into one car and then cruising around looking for new cars driving around. After spotting a mark, the driver would swerve right in front of the mark and slam on the brakes to make the mark rear-end the vehicle. After the collision, every single "crash dummy" would head to the nearest crooked chiropractor and claim massive soft tissue damage injuries. Since the mark is automatically at fault, his/her insurance company gets billed through the nose for every single "injury." AFAIK, it's gone out of style once insurance companies started to contest these bogus claims instead of paying up.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Unsafe Speed Ticket (22350) for Going 20 in 40mph, at Fault for Accident

    Quote Quoting HonkingAntelope
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    By your logic, everyone would have to keep the distance with the assumption that the vehicle in front of them can slam on the brakes and come to a complete stop in the middle of the freeway without any warning or any reason whatsoever at any time. Surely even you realize how absurd that would be.
    CA state law requires it.

    21703. The driver of a motor vehicle shall not follow another vehicle more closely than is reasonable and prudent, having due regard for the speed of such vehicle and the traffic upon, and the condition of, the roadway.

    Failure to adhere to that rule kinda puts you at fault in a rolling collision, or for violating 22350 if the vehicle in front comes to a complete stop prior to impact.

    I'm not talking about people zipping around with 6" of distance between cars. My point is that one can follow a vehicle well under the 2-second rule and that distance is perfectly safe, assuming the guy in front of you doesn't randomly slam on the brakes.
    The guy in front of you ain't gonna be able to stop on a dime, either. If you travel at a safe distance and speed, you should be able to react to the car in front of you's sudden braking. If following too close,y, no.

    It's one thing to be blamed for a collision when you strike a stopped vehicle or if the other driver brakes hard to avoid a collision. On the other hand, it's patently unjust to be cited for unsafe speed or following too closely when the guy in front of you decides he wants a new rear bumper or just slams on the brakes to "teach that guy a lesson."
    If the guy cuts in front of you and then slams on the brakes intentionally causing a collision, that's a crime. But, if you follow too close to the guy in front to be able to stop if he should slam on the brakes, you may be following too closely.

    One popular insurance scam in the 90s took advantage of this by piling 5-9 people (aka crash dummies) into one car and then cruising around looking for new cars driving around.
    It's still out there. There are details and task forces throughout the state (well, there were ... until the budget cuts ...) that address this even still. Many of the smaller claims still get through because insurance companies cannot contest every claim, and claims at lower coverage levels are often cheaper to pay than fight.

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