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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up California Pacing 60 MPH 22349 B with 35mph P.F.

    In CA I received a 60mph ticket for 22349 b with a listed 35mph P.F. I was on a non divided 4 lane local road (city driving with 2 lanes in each direction).

    The details are: Because I was behind someone slow I switched lanes going into a red light to be the first car in the other lane. It was night and I didn't realize I was moving in front of a poorly marked police SUV (there was plenty of room before the red). I just knew he flashed his brights at me when we stopped at the light and came right up my bumper when it turned green (freaked me out a bit). Because he didn't back off I moved to the right, thinking he was a crazy and would blow past me. Instead he then turned on his lights and pulled me over. I would never have ended up going so fast if I didn't feel threatened. This happened over a very short distance. As far as I know he "paced" me, there were two officers in the SUV.

    Few questions.
    1) Is the ticket still valid since he wrote me up for 22349 b but listed the p.f./max speed as 35 instead of 55? (I have seen mixed answers)

    1b) does a p.f. of 35mph have any relevance for a 22349 b?

    2) I legitimately pulled away from him at the light and after a moment moved lanes when he ran up on me. I don't think I exceeded 55. Is it a legitimate defense to claim he was driving 5 mph faster than I was (hence coming right up my bumper) to clock 60mph? Or can I challenge calibration?

    2)b) Will admitting to driving 55 get me out of the 22349b charge but allow an immediate 22350 charge for exceeding 35?

    3) Can I use people vs studley or any other precedent to bring an engineering and traffic survey into play? (I haven't requested it yet and won't if it isn't relevant)


    I looked and couldn't quite find the answers to my situation in other posts. I'm pretty frustrated that the officer used his vehicle the way he did - normally I would only be driving 5-10 above the limit. Thanks for the help and any advice on how to handle this.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: California Pacing 60 MPH 22349 B with 35mph P.f

    Does the ticket say he used radar at all or mention a radar unit? The speed trap laws only apply if radar was used (it just had to be used it doesn't matter if they use other means also). Are they saying you exceeded by 25MPH? You should get a courtesy notice from the court with the fine and court details.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: California Pacing 60 MPH 22349 B with 35mph P.f

    Quote Quoting rrborg
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    Are they saying you exceeded by 25MPH?
    55mph...

    22349. (a) Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour.

    (b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person may drive a vehicle upon a two-lane, undivided highway at a speed greater than 55 miles per hour unless that highway, or portion thereof, has been posted for a higher speed by the Department of Transportation or appropriate local agency upon the basis of an engineering and traffic survey. For purposes of this subdivision, the following apply:

    (1) A two-lane, undivided highway is a highway with not more than one through lane of travel in each direction.

    (2) Passing lanes may not be considered when determining the number of through lanes.

    (c) It is the intent of the Legislature that there be reasonable signing on affected two-lane, undivided highways described in subdivision (b) in continuing the 55 miles-per-hour speed limit, including placing signs at county boundaries to the extent possible, and at other appropriate locations.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: California Pacing 60 MPH 22349 B with 35mph P.f

    ticket discription is "speeding", thats it. There is no mention of radar or a radar unit (unless it is a check box I don't know the meaning of). The ticket isn't clear what I am being accused of Code for 55 or listed P.F., it is recent enough I don't have the notice yet. Thanks for responding

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    55mph...

    (1) A two-lane, undivided highway is a highway with not more than one through lane of travel in each direction.

    (2) Passing lanes may not be considered when determining the number of through lanes.
    Does this mean that the code doesn't apply to a road which has 2 lanes in each direction? The outside lane allows parking along some stretches (although not right where we were). I have to assume that since there are so many 4 lane roads I am missing something and the officer wouldn't have used it otherwise. Will definitely bring it up, but in case it gets shot down are my other approaches / concerns valid?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: California Pacing 60 MPH 22349 B with 35mph P.f

    Quote Quoting Legalhat
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    I was on a non divided 4 lane local road (city driving with 2 lanes in each direction).
    That maybe an issue in that 22349(b) only applies on a 2 lane undivided hwy... Try your luck with it and see if it flies.

    Quote Quoting Legalhat
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    The details are: Because I was behind someone slow I switched lanes going into a red light to be the first car in the other lane. It was night and I didn't realize I was moving in front of a poorly marked police SUV (there was plenty of room before the red). I just knew he flashed his brights at me when we stopped at the light and came right up my bumper when it turned green (freaked me out a bit). Because he didn't back off I moved to the right, thinking he was a crazy and would blow past me. Instead he then turned on his lights and pulled me over. I would never have ended up going so fast if I didn't feel threatened. This happened over a very short distance. As far as I know he "paced" me, there were two officers in the SUV.
    Quote Quoting Legalhat
    View Post
    2) I legitimately pulled away from him at the light and after a moment moved lanes when he ran up on me. I don't think I exceeded 55. Is it a legitimate defense to claim he was driving 5 mph faster than I was (hence coming right up my bumper) to clock 60mph? Or can I challenge calibration?
    I'm not clear on whether he paced you before or after you stopped at the red light!

    Quote Quoting Legalhat
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    1) Is the ticket still valid since he wrote me up for 22349 b but listed the p.f./max speed as 35 instead of 55? (I have seen mixed answers)
    And my answer is not going to clear it up any further... It could go either way.

    You can look at CVC 40503 and you'll see that he's required to cite "exactly the prima facie or maximum speed limit applicable to the highway at the time and place of the alleged
    offense"
    , which, as you state, is 35mph. That leaves the question of whether the court will set bail/fine for a 60mph in 35mph violation (25mph over) or will it set it for a 60mph inn a 55mph violation (5mph over). And that, you won't find out until you receive the courtesy notice.

    Quote Quoting Legalhat
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    1b) does a p.f. of 35mph have any relevance for a 22349 b?
    In my opinion, it would only be relevant with regards to the bail/fine amount.

    Quote Quoting Legalhat
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    2)b) Will admitting to driving 55 get me out of the 22349b charge but allow an immediate 22350 charge for exceeding 35?
    It can, it may...

    Question is, why would you think that admitting to 55 (in response to the officer's testimony that he clocked you at 60) will get the 22349-b dismissed?

    Quote Quoting Legalhat
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    3) Can I use people vs studley or any other precedent to bring an engineering and traffic survey into play?
    See rrborg's post above.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    I'm not clear on whether he paced you before or after you stopped at the red light!
    Let me rephrase that... Did he pull you over as soon as the red light changed to green?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: California Pacing 60 MPH 22349 B with 35mph P.f

    After the red light I wasn't speeding until we pulled out. Before that I just attracted his attention by getting in front of him.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding is that if I am being charged with violating 22349 B then I am only liable for speeds over 55 (see linked chp discussion http://www.chpforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2744). If he wants to charge me from 35mph I think he would need to use 22350.

    Wouldn't that mean that I regardless of the posted speed limit the 22349 couldn't be used to prosecut someone going 55 or less?

    And thanks for taking the time to answer. Appreciated.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: California Pacing 60 MPH 22349 B with 35mph P.f

    Quote Quoting Legalhat
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    Wouldn't that mean that I regardless of the posted speed limit the 22349 couldn't be used to prosecut someone going 55 or less?
    The officer cited you for 60mph... Not "55 or less"! So I'm not sure what your point is.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: California Pacing 60 MPH 22349 B with 35mph P.f

    Because there is a difference in how I would approach the case if my goal is to prove reasonable doubt that I was going 55 vs 60 instead of 35 vs 60. But I don't know if I establish reasonable doubt I was doing 50-55MPH instead of 60mph:

    A) Does that actually get me out of the ticket for 22349 B (I believe it only covers 55+ but thats part of what I was hoping to find out) - If you can use a 22349 from 35MPH it doesn't really help besides reducing the fine.

    B) If you can't, can the judge then fine me for being above 35MPH using a different ciolation code (22350) even though that wasnt what the origional ticket was for?


    --sorry if I am being thick, I'm just trying to understand what would be useful to accomplish in order to invalidate the ticket--

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