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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6

    Question Failure to stop

    I was issued a failure to stop in the state of Texas. I remembered that I came to a stop approx. 15 feet from the stop sign. I did this for the sole reason that I was going to take a righthand turn. The road coming from the left curved to the south, so my position behind the stop sign was to may advantage to look for on coming traffic. I went through the stop sign and made my righthand turn. The traffice cop was approx. 200 feet down the road sitting on his motorcycle on the sidewalk. He said that I failed to stop, which from his vantage point, it might have looked that way, as there was a great deal of vegetation between where I stopped and his position.
    I have a few questions to ask to defend my case; 1) what is the legal stopping distance from a stop sign in Texas? 2) Can a motorcycle cop park on a sidewalk? I would think that if that was me, I would be asked to move or get a ticket. 3) are cops required to follow protocal and ask for insurance, because this cop did not? 4) What is defined as a legal stop? 1 second, 2 seconds, 1/2 second, etc.

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    643

    Default Re: Failure to stop

    Although someone else might want to chime in, in most jurisdictions you have to come to a complete stop, regardless of the duration and not a rolling stop, at or as near to the stop sign/signal as is practical. So if you stopped some distance before you got to the stop sign, and then started going again getting up to and by the sign without stopping, that would be considered a violation.

    It would be no defense that you were not asked for insurance, registration, etc., nor would it be a defense that he was parked on the sidewalk even if he should not have been.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    CALIFORNIA
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Failure to stop

    Is there permissible distance one can stop BEFORE the stop sign limit line? That's an interesting question to pose.

    Do you have to come to a complete stop within 10 feet of the limit line or do you have to come to a complete stop at the limit line?

    If I had to take a guess, it would be that you would have to come to a complete stop at the limit line. Once stop, I think you're allowed to creep up to get a better view of traffic (provided it is done safely) before proceeding.

    Hopefully someone chimes in to confirm or dispute this.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    643

    Default Re: Failure to stop

    I think you've analyzed it correctly but one thing I would need to know in the Texas example is whether there was a white line (stop line) that was near where the stop sign was located. I've seen cases where that issue came into play because the white line was not actually even with the stop sign and the way the law is written here (you'll have to check in your own jurisdiction) is that the obligation to come to a complete stop was at the white line and not at the sign itself so you might have some wiggle room with this issue.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Failure to stop

    I want to thank everyone for their input. I would like to give some more supportive evidence for this; There is no stop line or cross walk. I did come to a clear stop approx 12 feet from the stop sign. I did this because I was going to take a righthand turn. The street that I was turning onto veers to the south about 1/4 mile from the intercetion. Stopping 12 feet behind the stop sign gives a clearer view of oncoming traffic. The problem is the officer never saw me stop because of a large amount of vegetaion (plants) blocked his view. The problem that I am having is that judges typically decide in the favor of the officer, so I must make damn sure I have enough evidence to clear me.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Failure to stop

    Quote Quoting txmmoore
    The problem that I am having is that judges typically decide in the favor of the officer, so I must make damn sure I have enough evidence to clear me.
    Take lots of photographs, both from your perspective and from the officer's with your car positioned where you say it was and where the STOP sign was. Show that stopping early is the only way to clearly see the road. Make three sets of prints, one for the judge, one for the prosecutor and one for yourself. Number each of the prints so you can refer to them easily.
    Good luck,
    Barry

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Failure to stop

    I have Canadian Case Law that overrules the Traffic Act definition. The critical point is visibility! If your pictures can show that your stopping point provided the best view of intersecting traffic, you should be rewarded with a dismissal.

    Don't be harsh when questionng the officer on the stand. Just a few simple questions, present your pictures to the judge, make your point quickly and I don't see how you can lose. Judges know that officers made the occassional mistake, too

    Book

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6

    Angry Re: Failure to stop

    Well, I was found guilty. As I think back what went wrong, I have a few pointers for those who read this. I could not accurately pinpoint the officer's location. Where he was (truefully) and where he said he was did not match. Based on his testmony, he put himself closer to the intersection than where he really was. Yes, the state and the judge believe him over me, so I lost the case.

    For those who find themself in the same situation, this is a great board, and the comments left behind were very helpful. Take lots of pictures. I had approx. 8 pictures, and if I had a few more, then I think I might have won. Also, do not take zoomed photos, as I could not get these approved for evidence, as the state rejected them. I can not think of the exact reason, but I think he had something to do with depth perception.

    Find a witness. The officer brought in another police officer that said he was talking to him just before my offense took place. This officer help pinpointed the location of the officer. This did although I got his testmony thrown out, it did not help. I should have payed someone a few bucks to refute everything, but I thought I had an open and shut case. So, $200 down the drain.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Failure to stop

    This is why I usually recommend traffic school or a deferment. You will usually lose at the traffic court level when you are defending yourself. In Texas you have the right to a jury trial and that is usually your best option.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    174

    Default Re: Failure to stop

    I lost once defending myself on (what I thought was) an iron-clad defence. But it just made me better prepared next time! So don't get too discouraged. Treat is as a good education.

    I've never had a cop "fib" in court, but I always "assume" he/she WILL, when planning my strategy. Disclosure would have been helpful in your case. It would have stated exactly where the officer will testify to being, when witnessing the offence. That way, your not caught off-guard during cross-exam.

    Better luck next time,
    Book

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