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  1. #1
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    Default Tenant Subrogation, I Was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance

    My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: Utah

    Recently I moved out of a house I was renting. I received today a notice of intent to pursue Subrogation. Basically about a week before we moved out the water was turned off because we could not afford to pay the bill. Upon our departure and submission of all keys, a few days the landlord did a walk through of the home and paid to have the water turned back on but failed to check all the water connections before turning it on. When he went back to the unit later the home was flooded as a result.

    I am confident that all faucets were put in the off position as we had anticipated the water being shut off and didn't even try to turn it on. For all I know the landlord could have been messing with the faucets before he had it turned back on.

    The insurance company is now saying we are at fault. I disagree. From what I understand in reading info: "Utah considers the tenant an implied co-insured for the limited purpose@ of subrogation. GNS Partnership
    v. Fullmer, 873 P.2d 1157, 1162 (Utah Ct. App. 1994). "

    Please let me know your thoughts on if you think we are to blame or not.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tenant Subrogation, I Was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance

    If you left the faucets open and had the water turned on, thereby causing the rental unit to flood, your negligence caused the damage. What does your lease say about your obligation to carry insurance?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tenant Subrogation, I Was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance

    Mr. Knowitall,

    No disrespect but it would help if you read my statement:
    a)I turned off the faucets, anticipating beforehand that the water would be turned off. We had received notices that told us the water would be turned off a certain day.
    b)I did not turn on the water, the landlord did a walk through of the home and paid to have the water turned back.

    I apologize I should have asked a more appropriate question. My main question is if the insurance company has any business coming after me at all as I should be an "implied co-insured"
    GNS Partnership v. Fullmer, 873 P.2d 1157, 1162 (Utah Ct. App. 1994). I believe the insurance company is just trying to pass on the cost when they should be the ones covering it.

    Thanks.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tenant Subrogation, I Was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance

    You are certianly NOT liable for the damage. North River Insurance Co. v. Snyder, 804 A.2d 399,2002 Me. 164 It was a Maine case that mirrors your case. In this case the building was insured and a fire that was blamed on the renter Snyder (who denied the accusation) destroyed it. NRIC sued Snyder and the Federal court held that the renter is an implied co-insured person under the policy.

    You are actually covered two ways. 1 - The LL still had your security deposit which meant the LL-Tenant Relationship was still intact, and the federal courts have protected you via the cases mentioned.
    2 - The LL returned your deposit (or released you according to your contract) and you were no longer a tenant and he is thereby responsible for his own mistakes.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tenant Subrogation, I Was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance

    antrc170 - Thanks for the response I appreciate the information!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tenant Subrogation, I Was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance

    Quote Quoting brownies
    View Post
    No disrespect but it would help if you read my statement:
    No disrespect, but in relation to discussion of the negligence issues it would help if you read your own statement:
    Quote Quoting brownies
    View Post
    I am confident that all faucets were put in the off position as we had anticipated the water being shut off and didn't even try to turn it on. For all I know the landlord could have been messing with the faucets before he had it turned back on.
    You are "confident" because you believe you would have turned the faucets off under the circumstances, but you are guessing that the landlord may have turned the faucet on. In fact, even assuming that you can convince a court that you turned the faucets off, that does not guarantee that a faucet wasn't subsequently turned on by a family member or house guest. By virtue of the claim, your landlord has already taken the position that you didn't turn off the faucets. You can argue that you did, and speculate in court as to how the faucets might have been turned on by your landlord, but you would have no guarantee of success.
    Quote Quoting antrc170
    View Post
    You are certianly NOT liable for the damage. North River Insurance Co. v. Snyder, 804 A.2d 399,2002 Me. 164 It was a Maine case that mirrors your case. In this case the building was insured and a fire that was blamed on the renter Snyder (who denied the accusation) destroyed it. NRIC sued Snyder and the Federal court held that the renter is an implied co-insured person under the policy.
    Maine cases have no relevance to Utah legal disputes. Further, you provide no support for your conjecture that the end of a lease or return of a security deposit would stand as a release of all future claims by any party. Do you actually have authority for that position, or are you simply going with your gut feeling?
    Quote Quoting brownies
    View Post
    GNS Partnership v. Fullmer, 873 P.2d 1157, 1162 (Utah Ct. App. 1994). I believe the insurance company is just trying to pass on the cost when they should be the ones covering it.
    "In sum, we hold that a landlord is presumed to carry insurance for the tenant's benefit when the rental agreement is silent concerning responsibility for maintaining fire insurance." - What does your lease say about your obligation to carry insurance?

  7. #7
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    Default Tenant Subrogation, I Was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance (Update)

    Just an update on my issue of Tenant Subrogation under the title "Tenant Subrogation, I was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance".

    I contacted the insurance company providing full documentation that the water was shutoff and then turned on by the landlord a few days later resulting in the damage.

    The insurance company backed off of their case against me. The last post ended with a response from mrknowitall indicating that I was in the wrong and would have no case. It appears in this case mrknowitall didn't know sh*t.

    Just a heads up to all of you looking for advice, take it with a grain of salt, some of these lawyers are cocky as hell, it's nice to burst their bubble every now and then! lol

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Tenant Subrogation, I Was Just Contacted by Landlord's Insurance (Update)

    The problems with your "defense" were and are real. You chose not to respond to follow-up questions. If you were confused by having the realities of your situation explained to you, and believe that somebody told you that there was no chance that the insurance company would determine that this matter was not worth pursuing, that was nobody's fault but your own.

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