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  1. #1
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Setting Aside Plea to Homicide Committed by Somebody Else

    Wow, how to get a title to do justice?

    i am writing for a friend who took a 2nd degree murder plea for a murder he didn't actually do.

    He was homeless and living on the street as a young teenager. A man who worked at the grocery store took him in if he did chores at the house and sexual toy for the man. The boy didn't have another place so he did it.

    One night the boy was told he was to help the man break into a business and rob it. Due the boys very small size he could fit between the bars on the window.

    The store owner was in the store, and the man shot the owner. The man then sent the boy by bus to Texas explaining that he was too small to survive prison, so he better run.

    The boy had cut his hand on the window, so his DNA was at the store. He however never denied being there.

    A couple years after the murder he was caught in Texas. Florida convinced a teenage boy that he had three options. a) go to trial and get put on death row because the DNA would make it easy b) Plea to 2nd degree murder and sit 25 years c) give up the guy who did it and go to prison for the same 25 years for being involved. His fellow people in jail made sure he knew that going to state prison as a snitch would be a death sentence.

    The boy is not scheduled to get out of prison until 2029. He will get out of prison as a forty year old man that has never been outside as an adult. He went from drug addict parents throwing him to the streets, to sexually abused teenager, to petty crime to survive, to 25 years in prison. His criminal history has several charges, but no other violence against persons.

    Since being in he did his GED (90th percentile). He has tried to start a distance learning class, but there is no money for the class. In short he has never been given a chance. In the supreme court case against florida the justice said that it is unreasonable to think a teenager can't be reformed and kids put on death row have a right to have review of their incarceration. I'm not sure there is much difference between death row and getting out of prison at 40 with no resources, no history of working, not even been an adult outside of prison.

    He can not afford a lawyer, but is considering.

    a) trying for executive clemency. Not asking for his record to be cleared, but just a chance to get out and have a chance to show he can be a productive member of society... Even under tight supervision is fine with him. All he wants is a chance.

    b) trying to cut a deal to give up the man who did the murder and reduce his sentence. Not knowing where to go, how to protect himself both legally and as a snitch in prison.

    c) try to file a pro se case trying to make the same claim that was just won for death row teenagers.

    Wow, any suggestions?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Setting Aside Plea to Homicide Committed by Somebody Else

    I hate to be cynical, but I suggest you take everything this person is telling you with a grain of salt, and think long and hard before sending gifts or money. There are plenty of scammers in prison who will spin all sorts of sob stories to sucker people into relationships.

    If the police and prosecutor knew who the other person was, but didn't want to give the kid better plea bargain to implicate the other person, it's reasonable to infer that they thought the kid was the murderer or that they thought he was lying. If they knew the story then, there is no reason to believe they'll suddenly be interested in his attempt to get his sentence cut by telling them the same story today.

    By your timetable the kid would have been about thirteen at the time of the offense, and about fifteen when he entered his guilty plea. I'm very skeptical that the police wouldn't have been interested in pursuing an adult who was involved in the crime.

  3. #3
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Setting Aside Plea to Homicide Committed by Somebody Else

    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I understand that you may have a very limited knowledge of the world. I am slightly offended at the assumption that I have not looked into this. Unfortunately I have neither the time nor the inclination to work too hard at educating. I hate to sound cynical, but I am guessing it would be a futile effort anyway.

    I will however take a few minutes to type a reply to some of the concerns. I believe it might be easiest if I just start at the beginning.

    “I hate to be cynical, but I suggest you take everything this person is telling you with a grain of salt, and think long and hard before sending gifts or money. There are plenty of scammers in prison who will spin all sorts of sob stories to sucker people into relationships.”

    I suggest you ask questions before assuming that I have sent gifts or money. You should really reconsider insinuating that I am too poorly educated or experienced to look into what I am doing, and make a reasonable choice. The “sucker” insinuation is very offensive. I have read the files, and am convinced there is a chance he is telling the truth. Enough of a chance that I can spend some of my time doing some research for him. Who knows, I may even make a small investment, but I assume many people make investments into projects that may or may not work out. I assure you I will not invest more then I would if I were doing a mindless hobby like many people, and I don't expect some “relationship” as you insinuate.

    “If the police and prosecutor knew who the other person was, but didn't want to give the kid better plea bargain to implicate the other person, it's reasonable to infer that they thought the kid was the murderer or that they thought he was lying. If they knew the story then, there is no reason to believe they'll suddenly be interested in his attempt to get his sentence cut by telling them the same story today.”

    Sorry I must not have spelled it out clearly enough for you. He is sitting in prison on a second degree murder charge. The choices he had were to take blame and the second degree murder charge, or be charged as an associate in the crime and go to prison as a snitch if he gave the man up. Since he is in for second degree murder I assumed it would be clear that he didn't give the guy up and go in as a snitch. They have not heard his story. That is why it is one of the options. By the way, yes there is enough even in the Probable Cause Report to make me believe there is a high likely hood there was a second person.

    You also make some erroneous assumptions, like that the police investigate crime. They do until they can “close a case”. That is why organizations like the Innocence Project can have such a high success rate. They take the time to look at the case.

    You might also look to the State of Illinois. You will notice that they placed a moratorium on executions because a journalism student was able to prove a man ready to be executed was actually innocent. After that they continued to prove the prisoners innocent in high enough numbers to cause the moratorium. (Please note it was a journalism student and not a public defender or someone else that should have defended the prisoner)

    Of course I suspect you mistakenly think that there is a way for these accused men to get adequate legal help. Sure we fund public defenders, but they are paid little more then it takes to plead out the case. It is not usually the public defender's fault that they are overloaded. But the number of people found innocent bears evidence that this is often the case. It is an adversarial system we have, and the public defenders do not have the financial resources of the prosecutor, the labs at the prosecutor's disposal, or an entire police force to use as needed to investigate for their side. This coupled with a crippling case load and you have less then adequate ability to actually defend clients.

    I further guess that you believe our system to be reasonable. However if you look into it, you will find that, for example, the State of Florida has more minors in adult prison then almost anyplace else. To the point that it is on the target list for groups like Amnesty International. Another fine example from the State of Florida is the recent defeat they had in the U.S. Supreme Court. The system is not there to be fair or to rehabilitate prisoners. It is there so that people can make poor assumptions and sleep at night because they feel safer. Interestingly enough, look at the murder rate of the average state, and compare it to the combat death toll in Iraq. I believe you will find Americans in Iraq to have a lower violent death rate. That should say something about how our system fails.

    “By your timetable the kid would have been about thirteen at the time of the offense, and about fifteen when he entered his guilty plea. I'm very skeptical that the police wouldn't have been interested in pursuing an adult who was involved in the crime.”

    Not too far off.. only a couple years. Thank you for pointing out how our system treats young people. I find it ironic that we say a man is not capable of making adult choices until he is 18, and can't even decide to have a beer until he is 21, yet we can charge a 15 year old boy as an adult. We can then take that fifteen year old and put him in adult prison with an adult sentence.

    It always amazes me when I talk to people how many didn't even know someone under 18 could go to adult prison, or have any real clue at all how the system works. I submit that you might consider asking questions if you have nothing of value to add to the discussion, then you might be able to make a contribution if you did ask questions. If you are not going to ask for clarification or further facts, then please don't feel it is your duty to try to insinuate someone is a sucker, or otherwise waste our time.

    I would much prefer an intelligent rely that might be helpful. If someone has a reason that the options I suggested are not reasonable (beyond being “cynical” or naive) please let me know.

  4. #4
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Setting Aside Plea to Homicide Committed by Somebody Else

    You have to realize as a participant in the felony where someone was killed, he *IS* guilty of murder even if he wasn't the one who pulled the trigger. There's nothing indicated here that what he plead to would have been any worse than what he would have been convicted of anyhow.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Setting Aside Plea to Homicide Committed by Somebody Else

    Thank you. That is material information.

    I don't have my notes in front of me, but I thought Florida made a distinction between being involved in the crime with knowledge and without. I know it is still chargeable, but I though it had a lower Minimum Mandatory if the person didn't know there was a chance someone was going to get shot, wasn't in the room or a party to someone getting shot, and there was no gun with them when they went so he was not aware there would even be a weapon.

    You have given me something that I should look into better apparently, Thank You.

    I guess I still have the questions about relief due to mitigating circumstances such as his being a minor.

  6. #6
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    Jul 2010
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    Default Re: Setting Aside Plea to Homicide Committed by Somebody Else

    He went there WITH the knowledge a burglary/robbery was to take place. That makes him culpable for any other crimes that arise out of that, such as an accidental run in with the owner that left him dead or say they had kidnapped the man.
    He was given a choice on how to proceed...he should have gone to trial. He CHOSE to take a plea deal that resulted in prison time. His lawyer should have pushed harder for a juvenile sentence...or maybe offered to give up the guy in return for being sent to a juvenile facility where they would not know he was a snitch.

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