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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3

    Default Speed Trap or Not

    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: California


    I got a speeding ticket last September for going 45 in a 30. He said he got me on LIDAR.

    Anyway, I paid my bail and set up a trial date and did some research into the area which the ticket was given. The posted speed limit is 30, and the critical speed is 38 (according to the city's T and E survey). Under most circumstances the speed should be rounded to the closest 5 mph speed limit below the critical speed-- making the speed limit on this road 35. However I found in the survey that :
    The MUTCD 2003 California Supplement recommends that, when possible, the speed limit be set
    at the first five MPH increment below the critical speed. CVC 627 provides for the opportunity to
    lower the speed limit an additional five MPH based on residential density and/or pedestrian and
    bicyclist safety. The MUTCD 2003 California Supplement also recommends that speed zoning
    five MPH increments are preferable in urban areas, and that speed zones shorter than 0.5 miles
    long, as well as short transition zones, should be avoided.



    *That is from the T and E Survey.

    So I am wondering if my defense is now totally- for lack of a better word-- screwed?

    I couldn't go to traffic school because I had a ticket 7 months before this one for speeding (I was going 5mph over the speed limit when i got it!) But I was not so smart, paid for it and went to traffic school.


    My questions is: Do I have no defense? Should I just pray that the officer does't show up? I can PM the survey if anyone wants to review it. I really appreciate it!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Speed Trap or Not

    Quote Quoting gundog10
    View Post
    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: California


    I got a speeding ticket last September for going 45 in a 30. He said he got me on LIDAR.

    Anyway, I paid my bail and set up a trial date and did some research into the area which the ticket was given. The posted speed limit is 30, and the critical speed is 38 (according to the city's T and E survey). Under most circumstances the speed should be rounded to the closest 5 mph speed limit below the critical speed-- making the speed limit on this road 35. However I found in the survey that :
    The MUTCD 2003 California Supplement recommends that, when possible, the speed limit be set
    at the first five MPH increment below the critical speed. CVC 627 provides for the opportunity to
    lower the speed limit an additional five MPH based on residential density and/or pedestrian and
    bicyclist safety. The MUTCD 2003 California Supplement also recommends that speed zoning
    five MPH increments are preferable in urban areas, and that speed zones shorter than 0.5 miles
    long, as well as short transition zones, should be avoided.



    *That is from the T and E Survey.

    So I am wondering if my defense is now totally- for lack of a better word-- screwed?

    I couldn't go to traffic school because I had a ticket 7 months before this one for speeding (I was going 5mph over the speed limit when i got it!) But I was not so smart, paid for it and went to traffic school.


    My questions is: Do I have no defense? Should I just pray that the officer does't show up? I can PM the survey if anyone wants to review it. I really appreciate it!
    The date the survey was conducted dictates how the speed is set relative to the 85th percentile/critical speed... It also depends on what factors were cited for lowering the speed limit.

    Rather than PMing the E&T survey to one member, you'd be better off posting it in the thread so that we can ALL look at it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Speed Trap or Not

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    The date the survey was conducted dictates how the speed is set relative to the 85th percentile/critical speed... It also depends on what factors were cited for lowering the speed limit.

    Rather than PMing the E&T survey to one member, you'd be better off posting it in the thread so that we can ALL look at it.

    https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...thkey=CJyjh7MC


    Table 4:
    College Drive
    Page 13

    is where I was ticketed.


    Downloadable Here: http://www.MegaShare.com/2492236
    Password: speed

    Thanks!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Speed Trap or Not

    Quote Quoting gundog10
    View Post
    https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...thkey=CJyjh7MC


    Table 4:
    College Drive
    Page 13

    is where I was ticketed.


    Downloadable Here: http://www.MegaShare.com/2492236
    Password: speed

    Thanks!
    Here you go...
    Quote Quoting Page 19 of the above (docs.google) document
    Notes & Recommendations

    The MUTCD 2003 California Supplement recommends the speed limit be set at the first 5 MPH increment below the critical speed. First 5 MPH increment below the critical speed is 30 MPH. Staff recommends the current 30 MPH posted speed limit to be retained. 40% of accidents occured due to unsafe speed manuevers and this segment is located next to college campus with 25 mph speed zone.
    That is ALL incorrect.

    Here's a link to the MUTCD 2003 California Supplement . Look at page 2B-51 and you'll find the rules you're looking for.

    Quote Quoting from Page 2B-51 of the MUTCD 2003 California Supplement
    The speed limit should be established at the nearest 10 km/h (5 mph) increment to the 85th percentile speed. However, in matching existing conditions with the traffic safety needs of the community, engineering judgement may indicate the need for a further reduction of 10 km/h (5 mph).
    The underlined portion (from page 19 of the report) should read as follows:
    The MUTCD 2003 California Supplement recommends the speed limit be set at the first 5 MPH increment nearest the critical speed. The Critical (85%) speed in 38mph. First 5 MPH increment nearest the critical speed is 40mph.


    Assuming that a further reduction can be justified by way of the reasons they cited (high accident rate and "speed continuity" from the adjacent 25mph zone), the 40mph result can then be further reduced by 5mph.... Which would have resulted in a justified posted speed limit of 35mph... They posted it at 30.

    Just on that alone, you should be able to successfully argue that the engineer erred in his conclusion, by misinterpreting the standard recommended procedure (per the 2003 CA MUTCD), and therefore enforcement of an unjustified speed limit, constitutes a "speed trap" pursuant to VC sections 40801 - 40802.

    ETA: The information I referenced from the document you posted was from table "A-3".

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Speed Trap or Not

    Thanks for your help! This is really helpful.

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