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  1. #1

    Default Caught Fishing Without a License

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Maine

    First, my story.
    I am a student who lives in Connecticut. Since it is the summer break and I had been taking summer classes I am quite strapped for cash. With the new semester right around the corner and a little bit of time between the summer and fall classes, I decided the little block of time I had off would be an excellent time for a mini vacation, funds permitting. A few of my friends and I decided on a camping trip - fun, great potential for adventure, and almost free since my car is very good on gas. We eventually ended up in Maine, close to the NH border.

    We were in the state for about 48 hours total. The infraction came sunday morning at our campsite. As we were clearing up camp, a ranger came to our site to ask for ID since people had been leaving litter etc, at the sites and wanted to make sure they were cleaned, or at least they had someone to point the finger at if they weren't. I complied without any problem, and we started to small talk - stories about our little adventure, the weather, etc.

    Eventually she mentioned fishing - I said we had tried a little bit (pond nearby labeled for it) but never even had a nibble let alone come close to catching anything. She said a few more things then asked to see our fishing licenses. We had none, and she said we would be fined.

    I tried to argue that one, we never had any intention of keeping or eating anything we caught, just releasing them back (which was what I thought the rules for fishing without a license were in CT, although I do not know that for certain), two, we were here for a short weekend and were unaware that we needed a license to just cast off into a pond, and most importantly, that our efforts were entirely futile - essentially we just cast off several times then gave up.

    My questions are as follows. Firstly, is she justified in issuing this citation? She never actually saw us fishing, saw any poles (at the time they were locked in the trunk) or had any evidence of us fishing other than what I had said to her. Upon researching some of the park laws, we learned that much of her small talk seemed to have an secondary motive (asking about where we got our firewood and if we cut it down, two major violations in maine apparently, and also when my friend asked what the rules on possession of firearms were in the forest for self defense, she seemed far more interested in seeing if we had any than in letting us know the rules).

    More importantly, is there anything I can do about it other than pay full on? The citation is for $175, an absurd price for fishing without a license when I did nothing more than cast off into a pond. If I choose to fight it, is there any defense I could use other than ignorance? And more importantly, if I send my non guilty plea with a letter explaining my issue, is it possible to avoid the 5 hour drive up to Portland? If I was completely in the wrong, I have no issue paying the fine, its just that given my financial situation, any kind of reduction of the fee would be an enormous help. Its to the point that driving the 10 hours round trip is almost less of a hassle than trying to figure out how to get that money together.

    Any imput would be greatly appreciated, and if this is the wrong thread for this, my apologies. (also sorry for the novel of a post)

  2. #2

    Default Re: Fishing Without a License

    Quote Quoting Mountain Man
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    I tried to argue that one, we never had any intention of keeping or eating anything we caught, just releasing them back (which was what I thought the rules for fishing without a license were in CT, although I do not know that for certain),
    Intent has nothing to do with it. If you had a line in the water, you were fishing. Doesn't matter if you were releasing or not.

    two, we were here for a short weekend and were unaware that we needed a license to just cast off into a pond,
    But ignorance of the rule doesn't get you off the hook for violating it.


    and most importantly, that our efforts were entirely futile - essentially we just cast off several times then gave up.

    Again, the license is for FISHING, not for CATCHING.


    My questions are as follows. Firstly, is she justified in issuing this citation?
    Yep.

    She never actually saw us fishing, saw any poles (at the time they were locked in the trunk) or had any evidence of us fishing other than what I had said to her.
    Then that's the arguement you can try on the judge. Given that you were in a place with a fishing environment, and with poles in the car, what do you think the court will believe? The "she didn't actually WITNESS us committing the violation" might be a shot - and at the same time arguing that tells the court that you were, indeed, fishing.


    Upon researching some of the park laws, we learned that much of her small talk seemed to have an secondary motive (asking about where we got our firewood and if we cut it down, two major violations in maine apparently, and also when my friend asked what the rules on possession of firearms were in the forest for self defense, she seemed far more interested in seeing if we had any than in letting us know the rules).
    Relevent to a fishing license violation how?


    More importantly, is there anything I can do about it other than pay full on?
    Certianly. You can choose not to pay it, and leave the state - and hope that you never get pulled over, or in a minor traffic accident, or other minor (or major) run in with law enforcement such that you find out quite unexpectedly that there's a warrant for arrest (which they probably wouldn't extradite for, but that's a risk you take) or that you have a suspended driver license.


    The citation is for $175, an absurd price for fishing without a license when I did nothing more than cast off into a pond.
    Which is....fishing. Without a license.


    If I choose to fight it, is there any defense I could use other than ignorance?
    Ignorance won't be seen as a defense. An excuse maybe. But not the same thing to a judge.

    And more importantly, if I send my non guilty plea with a letter explaining my issue, is it possible to avoid the 5 hour drive up to Portland?
    You'll want to speak to a Washington attorney in that regard. Courts typically don't do letters. You either pay the fine, or you show up and make your case.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fishing Without a License

    Man consider it a lesson learned,cops are good at leading the conversation and getting you to shoot yourself in the foot. It's good to be polite and some cops can be friendly this will help you will notice subtle things someone does or say. Don't be overly paranoid but keep it in mind. It can help when a manger or another cop tires to twist your words or lead you somewhere. Haaaa it keeps our mind sharper.

    It's a money trap for the town. Once the police officer overheard that you were fishing that sealed your faith,it's probably not worth your time fighting it if you have to go in to court. It's probably a lot shot to get it thrown out and you may have need to appear more then once. It sucks but it's probably just simpler to mail in a check. You can try call the court and ask if you can appeal the fine via mail.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Fishing Without a License

    Quote Quoting tc498
    View Post
    Man consider it a lesson learned,cops are good at leading the conversation and getting you to shoot yourself in the foot. It's good to be polite and some cops can be friendly this will help you will notice subtle things someone does or say. Don't be overly paranoid but keep it in mind. It can help when a manger or another cop tires to twist your words or lead you somewhere. Haaaa it keeps our mind sharper.

    It's a money trap for the town. Once the police officer overheard that you were fishing that sealed your faith,it's probably not worth your time fighting it if you have to go in to court. It's probably a lot shot to get it thrown out and you may have need to appear more then once. It sucks but it's probably just simpler to mail in a check. You can try call the court and ask if you can appeal the fine via mail.
    Here is the deal. It will cost you either way, because even if you take it to court and win, you will have attorney fees and court costs, along with gas and time to go up there. Whether you decide to fight this or not is more dependent on how far you will go for "principle". Admittedly, you broke the law. However, as we all know, it isn't what you've done, it's what the prosecution can prove.

    First let's look at what the charge is: A misdemeanor. There is no time to be served, and a small fine. This will not go on your record as anything major. Generally speaking, there is never a criminal charge filed, it is just a civil restitution (Although, a criminal charge may be filed, in which case it is generally a Class B misdemeanor or lower.) Basically, they don't want anything but your money. If you are tight on cash, it's better to pay the fine. Fighting will cost money and take time, and ultimately in not a guarantee of success.

    If you have the time and money, and feel the need to pursue it out of principle, then we can look at the particulars of the case.

    What they need to prove: As a civil case, they only have to prove Preponderence of the Evidence or the Balance of Probabilities. Basically that means the prosecution has to prove it was more likely than not, a better than fifty-percent chance that it happened.

    What you have on your side: You were not actually seen fishing. It would be best if the park ranger had not seen your fishing poles. You were not under oath when you made your comments to the park ranger, so you cannot be charged with perjury based solely on telling her one thing and the court another (However, if you lie to the court, then you are guilty of perjury, if they find out.)

    I'm not entirely certain in this particular instance, but in general, a statement made to the park ranger would be considered hearsay in determining guilt for an offense (In this case, fishing without a license). With no physical evidence (Personal observation, fish roasting on the fire, etc) and hearsay as the only evidence for conviction, I would say the prosecution would have a slim case.

    If the park ranger was attractive you could also argue that your comment was only meant to try and impress her with how "outdoorsy" you were, and that you never actually fished, but when she mentioned fishing you tried to boast up your "masculine" side in order to impress her. Not sure how that would go over, but I have seen similar arguments accepted in court, albeit not for alleged fishing without a license.

    In the end, if the prosecution doesn't have any evidence, you have a good chance of it being dismissed, although if you go that route be careful, as if you lie under oath you're in a whole different world of trouble. You cannot be forced to testify against yourself. Focus on the fct that you were not caught fishing, nor was there any physical evidence. The prosecution's case rests entirely on hearsay, which is almost universally unaccepted in a courtroom. It could be argued that it falls under the admission of guilt exception, though. It really depends on the prosecution, the judge, and your lawyer

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