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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    5

    Question Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    My question involves the law for the state of: NY

    Hi there.

    A few days ago, a friend of mine [let's call him X] told me that police came to his door, waving their guns, taking the guns off the safety and pointing them to his chest, while claiming that they were 'searching' for he & another friend [let's call him Y].

    According to X, the police claimed that there was a robbery in the neighborhood, and X & Y "fit the description" of the accused.

    X claimed that he got the badge number of the police officer who allegedly pointed the gun, safety off, at his chest.

    My question is two-fold:
    1. Assuming what X told me was true, is this proper police procedure? [X claimed that the officers had no warrant -- just stormed his house like a bunch of stormtroopers.]
    2. If this is not proper police procedure, does X have a lawsuit against the NYPD and the city of NY?

    Caveat: as I was not there, I cannot say for 100% certainty that events transpired exactly as X claims they did. For all I know, he's greatly exaggerating his claims. However, if the claims are 100% correct, I'd like to know if he has remedies, because this whole thing just sounds so wrong to me. Thanks.

    [edited to correct grammar]

  2. #2

    Default Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    If an officer's gun is out of it's holster, the safety is off.

    Without knowing the exact circumstances as known to police at the time of the "raid", we can't possibly tell if the actions were warranted or not. There are lots of possibilities where these actions would be appropriate, and lots where they wouldn't. It would all depend on what police knew, and when they knew it.

    If the search was conducted without a warrant AND without exigent circumstances, the remedy is that the defense challenges the admission of any evidence gained in the search.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    Quote Quoting aardvarc
    View Post
    If an officer's gun is out of it's holster, the safety is off.

    Without knowing the exact circumstances as known to police at the time of the "raid", we can't possibly tell if the actions were warranted or not. There are lots of possibilities where these actions would be appropriate, and lots where they wouldn't. It would all depend on what police knew, and when they knew it.

    If the search was conducted without a warrant AND without exigent circumstances, the remedy is that the defense challenges the admission of any evidence gained in the search.
    No. Wrong. At least in theory there are remedies under 42 USC section 1983. There is qualified immunity as a defense under this section, but that may or may not apply in Xs case.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    I wasn't about to go into all the possible theories - since even the poster doesn't know what actually happened.

  5. #5

    Exclamation Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    Quote Quoting aardvarc
    View Post
    I wasn't about to go into all the possible theories - since even the poster doesn't know what actually happened.
    Remedies for the innocent are more important than remedies for the guilty.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Default Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    Does he have grounds for a civil suit?

    NO. Not a chance. No payday for your "friend."

    You need a better class of friends, that is for sure.

    If there is an illegal SEARCH, and you don't really say, then any evidence found can possibly be supressed. This is what a criminal attorney is for.

    There is no civil recourse for the search.

    Exactly what tort do you think the police can be sued for?
    There isn't any. And what do you care, you going to pay for the attorney?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Florida
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    2,344

    Default Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    It's kinda hard to shoot somebody if the safety is on. That's why I like a revolver for home defense. And a Kel-Tec safety-less P3AT for personal defense. Cops practice their moves and procedures until it is automatic, but most of us don't develop that level of proficiency.

    If an officer believes he is in danger, he's going to point his gun at the souce of the perceived threat. There's some allowance for a certain amount of errror in perceiving what is a threat when looked at in hindsight.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    CT & IL
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    5,273

    Default Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    this is why I keep my 50 cal rifle loaded and ready .... vests mean nothing to this weapon ... I dont dial 911

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Default Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    Quote Quoting rockstar69
    View Post
    My question is two-fold:
    1. Assuming what X told me was true, is this proper police procedure? [X claimed that the officers had no warrant -- just stormed his house like a bunch of stormtroopers.
    Stormed UP to his house, porch, etc. OR, invaded it, meaning a warrantless home entry?


    2. If this is not proper police procedure, does X have a lawsuit against the NYPD and the city of NY?
    Removing a gun from a holster and pointing it as described is without question a "Seizure" under the 4th AM.

    Since we do NOT know the exact facts we can not determine if the Seizure was reasonable and or excessive??

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    5

    Exclamation Re: Police Came to the Door With Their Guns Drawn

    Quote Quoting BOR
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    Stormed UP to his house, porch, etc. OR, invaded it, meaning a warrantless home entry?
    Hi -- just saw this. According to X, X and Y were sitting on X's front step, waiting for X's mother to come home, when the NYPD stormed the front step, pointed the gun, etc. The police were not in the house.



    Quote Quoting BOR
    View Post
    Removing a gun from a holster and pointing it as described is without question a "Seizure" under the 4th AM.

    Since we do NOT know the exact facts we can not determine if the Seizure was reasonable and or excessive??
    According to X, they made no excessive movements, and instead simply put their hands up and behind their heads, as instructed. X memorized the shield number of the cop pointing the gun at him, and called the NYPD to verify that this was, indeed, "one of theirs." (It was.)

    I was under the impression that police are only allowed to draw their weapons if there is a clear and imminent danger. Since X (and, for that matter, Y)'s only "threat" was that they were black men living in a bad neighborhood (according to both X and Y, who have -- subsequent to this original post -- spoke to me separately about this issue, this happens all the time in their neighborhood), I'm not sure what the cop's motives were, exactly.

    I just feel I should have come here to ask if this was an acceptable procedure, and if it is not, if there's anything I can do to assist them in stopping this from happening in the future (be that through a lawsuit, a formal complaint, whatever).

    Any clarification on this would be appreciated. Many thanks.

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