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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    Quote Quoting greenmancan
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    I don't know how else to mention this either except to refer to something I know exists in Fl.,but I don't know if Ca. has a similar version.The baker act,if he is a threat to anyone or himself he MUST go to the hospital or mental facility for 72 hour observation.
    We have a similar statute here simply referred to as W&I 5150. However, one who is under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol is not generally subject to placement in a mental health facility so they would not even likely respond to such a situation.

    The police here would be sued for taking him to jail.Here he would have found compassion.Unless a bully responded.
    They DO have public intoxication laws in FL. I think you over exaggerate a tad. They would not be sued for making an arrest pursuant to probable cause, and taking him into custody until he sobers up may well have been the best and most compassionate act available at the time. The alternative would be to leave a guy acting whacked running around the desert and possibly putting himself at even greater risk. Had he simply remained at home, none of this would have happened. Obviously he was not in a state of mind to care for himself and since it was apparently induced or exaggerated by the use of alcohol, and he refused medical treatment, the authorities had little choice but to arrest him.

    Would they arrest a women who was drunk in a bar,then raped and thrown in an alley.
    Probably not. But, then, we are not talking about anything even remotely similar so the analogy is pointless.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Florida
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    66

    Default Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    But, the woman is drunk in public, that's a crime,case closed.

    Without a breathalyzer or blood test how would the police know.It could be a mental or physical impairment or psychosis.I would think taking him forcefully to the hospital would have been the proper action.

  3. #23
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    Quote Quoting greenmancan
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    But, the woman is drunk in public, that's a crime,case closed.
    I guarantee that a rape victim would not be charged with public intoxication. Having dealt with drunken victims before I can say with certainty that as long as there is some legitimacy to a claim of being the victim of a greater crime, the drunken victim is highly unlikely to be charged and prosecuted. I'd say it would NEVER happen, but I cannot discount the possibility that it might have happened somewhere at some time in CA.

    Plus, CA is not a "letter of the law" state pursuant to statute:

    4. The rule of the common law, that penal statutes are to be
    strictly construed, has no application to this Code. All its
    provisions are to be construed according to the fair import of their
    terms, with a view to effect its objects and to promote justice.

    Without a breathalyzer or blood test how would the police know.
    Oh, you know, that aroma of alcohol emanating from his person ... shall I go into detail how alcohol ie expelled from the body? I'm suire that even you can tell when a person has been drinking, right?

    Plus, if no prosecution is desired, no test will be necessary.

    It could be a mental or physical impairment or psychosis.
    Sure, it could be ... though the officer is not going to make that determination. The defendant can raise mental defect as a defense should he be charged and can find a doctor to make such a claim on his behalf.

    I would think taking him forcefully to the hospital would have been the proper action.
    But, given the circumstances, almost certainly unlawful in my state.

  4. #24

    Smile Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    . . .
    I would suggest that if the did dispatch the helicopter to assist, what was expressed to dispatch was worse than what you are saying here. It costs $$ to run the thing and there is a huge liability with operating a helicopter. I don't imagine they take them out without a reason. . . .
    The reason they took out the helicopter is because they need to use all the helicopters they have or they start losing helicopters. So they start sending out helicopters on small stakes calls like this. Then when the helicopter finds the person they have to charge because they used the helicopter, and they don't want to say they used a helicopter merely to sort out a cancelled 911 call.

    I am really surprised they didn't charge him with worse.

    Anyway, the good news is that his county is likelier to keep all the helicopters it has even as social services budgets shrink. That is good news for anyone who does not need welfare, but does spend time scurrying on rocks in the middle of nowhere in the hot sun.

  5. #25
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    First, it is doubtful that the county has a plan in place to bill anyone for the use of the helicopter. This was not a search and rescue operation.

    Second, the helicopter is an outstanding if expensive tool. It saves time, and it can save lives. In areas where they do not have helicopters, they occasionally request them from those agencies that do.

    They are invaluable for locating suspects and people in need of aid in rural areas (like mine) and for tracking suspects and vehicles in urban areas. Such tracking saves lives as it can prevent the need for high speed pursuits.

    We can all hypothesize why this unnamed agency launched a chopper for this call, but I suspect it had to do with the bizarre actions of our OP and the perception that he needed to be located before he ran off into the desert somewhere. The helicopter can get their faster than ground aid, and can also locate and vector in ground resources. Yes, there can be a "use it or lose it" mentality as well, but that goes with any resource. If you cannot justify a need to the bean counters, even if it saves lives or money when you DO use it, they cannot justify the ongoing expense if it is not used with some frequency. Sadly, many politicians do not look forward or look at risk management, they look more towards what do I get from it today.

    Quote Quoting Buddy Hinton
    View Post
    I am really surprised they didn't charge him with worse.
    There was probably nothing "worse" they could charge him with.

    And, as a note, we very often still respond to "cancelled" 911 calls ... there are reasons for that which should be obvious.

    Anyway, the good news is that his county is likelier to keep all the helicopters it has even as social services budgets shrink.
    Since the funding for the helicopter would not come from the same source of funds as social services, you could be right. Money for social services does not generally come from the same source of funds that would also pay for helicopter services. In other words, the helicopter should not take away one welfare or service program.

    However, given the current funding sources and levels in CA it is far more likely that the helicopter will lose funding before social services unless or until the feds and the state decide to stop funding those social programs.

  6. #26

    Exclamation Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    First, it is doubtful that the county has a plan in place to bill anyone for the use of the helicopter. . . .
    I wasn't clear. Wasn't trying to suggest that the OP would be "charged" with a bill for services, but rather that he needed to be "charged" crimininally to cover the fact that they sent a helicopter out on a cancelled 911 call.

    It is understood that some cancelled 911 calls require follow up. Whether the OP's cancelled 911 call required any sort of follow up (doubtful), it did not require follow up by helicopter visit. However, what might look like a greedy error in judgement from a public safety perspective becomes easier to justify if they stick the OP with a criminal charge -- so they did. It could have been worse -- if the first helicopter had accidentally crashed when responding to the OP's cancelled 911 call, then he probably would have had a lock of JonBenet Ramsey's hair discreetly tucked into his pocket on the frisk incident to arrest when the second heli finally found him.

    The point is that they need to do what they need to do in order to make a good showing on those heli's. Tax money is tax money, and the socialist elites are always looking to grab up any spare dollars. So, in this case it was important to take a "criminal" off the "street." Hopefully, if the OP sees it this way he won't feel too bad by looking at the bigger picture of law enforcement needs.

  7. #27
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    Yes, tax money may be tax money, but funding is not quite that simple. Cutting out a helicopter is not going to add a quarter million to the social services budget, it will simply save the general fund a quarter million that will be spent on additional officers or equipment ... or cut out entirely to the detriment of all. It might also increase response time and expense for search and rescue ops, and increase the risks to the public - thus expensive civil liability - for pursuits or serious critical incidents. Larger, more rural agencies, and large urban agencies have a great need for choppers. Smaller ones, not so much. Many agencies cannot afford them so they help out with regional resources. In San Diego we used the SDPD chopper, the SDSO chopper, the Customs chopper and the CHP chopper. Each had different capabilities, and usually at least one of them was available. They are a fabulous tool and I only wish they were less expensive so we could have more of them.

    In rural areas as the OP describes, the utilization of a helicopter would not be uncommon and is a very useful tool. I am sorry that you feel them to be a waste of money, but I have had them save my butt more than once so I love 'em!

  8. #28

    Default Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post
    . . . I am sorry that you feel them to be a waste of money . . .
    I never said they were a waste of money -- I just said that they need to be justified and that that can lead to unintended consequences (as in the story of this thd). As long as the OP keeps his job and doesn't have to go to prison, I guess no big harm done. When I lived out in Wonder Valley I only had 5 acres and one house, so, to me, the OP seems well off and can hopefully get the legal help he needs.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Penal Code 647(F) While on My 10 Acres

    Depending on what county he is in, I doubt he'll need any legal help as public intox cases are rarely filed in many counties. It does sound like he needs some other manner of professional help, though.

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