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  1. #11

    Default Re: Can an Accused Child Sex Offender Have Children

    Quote Quoting jk
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    there was either more to the story or he had a really poor lawyer. Both 2nd and 4th, by the verbiage alone, require contact.. Neither charge is applicable to mooning. I would love to know the exact section of the statutes applied. Sounds like the kid got taken for a ride or there is much more to the story.

    from the statutes:



    Mooning just isn't a possibility as a CSC violation.


    depending what was involved, may very well have been applicable.




    I know a person that has a 25 year registration for 4th degree CSC (misdemeanor). and the victim was 15 and I do not believe it even included penetration.

    so, sex offenders can't be young?

    but what does any of that have to do with your claim of seriousness of the varying levels of CSC? You claimed CSC 4th was more serious than 3 and it isn't. 3 is a felony and 4 is a misdemeanor so regardless of the punishment, 3 will always be seen as more serious.
    I'm not going to tell you that it makes sense, only what happened. I got a phone call about the mooning incident (he ran across the auditorium stage, dropped his pants, pulled them up and ran) from both my dd and a teacher that I know. The charges brought were CSC 2 and 4, based on the age and makeup of those in the auditorium. There was zero contact by all accounts, but that didn't seem to make a difference. In my case, there WAS contact and force involved, based on multiple witness statements and my testimony, however he skated on a 4th degree because I just didn't see it as a crime that should ruin his life with prison time (and yes, as a testifying witness, I did get a say so, which they honored in exchange for my testimony).

    I didn't say that 4 was more serious that 3, I said that 2 and 4 were less serious charges than 1 and 3. That is what I was told by the local PA and the Lt of the state trooper when I was called in. I'm also NOT disputing that young ppl can't be sex offenders, I'm saying that I don't see mooning or kissing as a serious offense (no force involved, no penetration either accused or proven). These are stupid offenses that have ruined lives. This is a small town, where everyone knows everyone, so we get the story quite quickly and accurately. You have to understand that different area's have different thoughts on how to deal with their populace, and that's how it is here. It's all in the interpretation of the law and how it is enforced.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Can an Accused Child Sex Offender Have Children

    =mamabear2102003;441911]I'm not going to tell you that it makes sense, only what happened. I got a phone call about the mooning incident (he ran across the auditorium stage, dropped his pants, pulled them up and ran) from both my dd and a teacher that I know. The charges brought were CSC 2 and 4, based on the age and makeup of those in the auditorium. There was zero contact by all accounts, but that didn't seem to make a difference.
    I would have to guess very poor legal representation. You can't blame the situation on the laws when the failure to fairly defend a person was the ultimate cause for the conviction.

    heck, if he wasn't dumb enough to take that as a plea, sounds like he might have grounds for an appeal even.

    In my case, there WAS contact and force involved, based on multiple witness statements and my testimony, however he skated on a 4th degree because I just didn't see it as a crime that should ruin his life with prison time (and yes, as a testifying witness, I did get a say so, which they honored in exchange for my testimony).
    if you are talking about the kissing; of course there was contact and if it was forced, what is there to say? and skating on a 4th? well, since that is a much lesser charge than either 1st or 3rd, not sure I would see that as skating.

    and you negotiating to testify? it is real simple; they give you a subpoena, you show up and testify. You lie, you get charged with a crime.

    I didn't say that 4 was more serious that 3, I said that 2 and 4 were less serious charges than 1 and 3.
    you said this:

    In Michigan, CSC 1 and 3 are the most serious, 2 and 4 can encompass a wide variety of variables, including 'mooning' your fellow classmates as a senior prank, kissing someone underage, or grabbing a bartender delivering your drinks around the waist and pulling her close while making obscene comments.
    your statement is simple erroneous. 1 and 3 are not the most serious. they are numbered as they are as a listing of severity 1 being the worst and 4 being the least egregious. Just like 1 and 2 degree murder. Each of the degrees have many variables within them.

    and no, mooning does not fall under any of the CSC statutes. The fact that that guy got charged and convicted under a CSC claim does not mean it actually is within the CSC statutes.

    In fact, since you want to continue to make the claim, how about you posting how and where it can be realized within the CSC statutes?


    the rest might fall under CSC statutes depending on all of the facts involved.





    That is what I was told by the local PA and the Lt of the state trooper when I was called in. I'm also NOT disputing that young ppl can't be sex offenders, I'm saying that I don't see mooning or kissing as a serious offense (no force involved, no penetration either accused or proven)
    .You are limiting your requirement for the offense to be serious based on lack of penetration or force? So if some perv get's a little kid to willingly fondle his junk that's not serious? Remember, no force and no penetration.




    These are stupid offenses that have ruined lives
    .as to the mooning, not so sure the stupidity lies with the law or the courts. Sounds like the stupidity was on the other side of the walkway.



    The kissing was a friends kid, he was 18, she was 14 (gf), and they gave him the same sentence as the kid that mooned at the school
    I'm not seeing a problem with the charges. an 18 yo kid admitting he is dating a 14 yo girl? Sounds like he needs to be listed if he cannot understand why that was wrong. I surely wouldn't want a person that thought that age split was ok being around my kids.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Can an Accused Child Sex Offender Have Children

    Are we having a bad day jk? I've read a lot of your posts, and you're normally not this confrontational. I can only tell you what I know and have experienced from here, I'm not trying to cause an argument. Huggs.

  4. #14
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    38,867

    Default Re: Can an Accused Child Sex Offender Have Children

    Quote Quoting mamabear2102003
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    Are we having a bad day jk? I've read a lot of your posts, and you're normally not this confrontational. I can only tell you what I know and have experienced from here, I'm not trying to cause an argument. Huggs.
    not at all.

    to being non-confrontational? the other site I frequent gets that usually


    I too know several people on the SOR. Some deservedly, some maybe no so much. I also see the abuse of the legal system. Part of the problem I see causing that is either a misunderstanding of what actually happened by those reporting the situation or (and much more egregious) is the misapplication of laws that cause a person to be subject to punishments that were never intended for their acts.

    The situation with the mooning is a perfect example. I simply cannot find anything that would allow the person to be charged with a CSC law based on the simple act described. Now, am I saying you are not being truthful? not at all. What I believe happened is, and as I said before, the kid had some very poor representation. He should never have been charged with anything under the CSC laws but even more egregious is he should never have been convicted under such laws.

    Whether his actions fall under the statutes that require SOR registration I don't know. Personally, I would hope not. I do not believe such actions fall under the intended use of the registry. There was nothing "sexual" about his actions. If his actions were sexual, then most of the women I see on the beaches should also be charged and required to register as well.

    If anything, I can see something such as a public disturbance or disorderly conduct but surely not a sex based law.

    but anyway, what I was looking for more than anything is that although that kid was charged under the CSC laws, that you would provide something that showed it deserved to be charged under such laws. I believe it was an improper charge and your claim that it was punishable under a CSC law was incorrect. While it did happen, claiming that is was proper is like saying the innocent person that was incorrectly convicted of murder deserved to be executed even though he was not guilty.

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