Results 1 to 10 of 20

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    24

    Default Adequacy of Speed Limit Signs

    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Washington, Snohomish County, SR 531

    1) Is there a minimum distance required between speed limit signs?
    (in my case, the signs are 1.35 miles apart)

    2) How can I find out if an engineering and traffic investigation was conducted (85th percentile?) that determined the posted speed limit on this section of SR531 ? Should this be something I persue on a Discovery Request?

    3) On the ticket, the description in the #1 violation field is incomplete.
    It reads "46.61.400 SPEEDING 12 MPH OVER LIMIT (40 OR U ..."
    Is that alone cause for dismisal?

    I apparently have the new "computerized" ticket. I think it's called a "SECTOR"? The WSP officer has a small printer connected to a laptop apparently. This must seriously cut down on hand-written mistakes.

    I haven't had a ticket in 15years. The 35mph is too slow considering the conditions. It was a Fri morning, not another car within sight, sunny, clear and 300yd sight distance. As I crested the hill and was coasting down....there he was...700ft away, hiding with just the rear of his vehicle showing in shadows. I have to admit, that's a fantastic place to generate revenue for gravity-induced acceleration violations.

    There;s no one to blame but me, however, I want to exercise my legal rights by requesting a hearing....I think. ;-)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Adequacy of Speed Limit Signs

    Quote Quoting Dizzyhawk
    View Post
    1) Is there a minimum distance required between speed limit signs?
    (in my case, the signs are 1.35 miles apart)

    Nope.

    Quote Quoting Dizzyhawk
    View Post
    2) How can I find out if an engineering and traffic investigation was conducted (85th percentile?) that determined the posted speed limit on this section of SR531 ? Should this be something I persue on a Discovery Request?

    If it was within city limits, contact the city traffic engineer. If it was unincorporated Snohomish County, contact the county traffic engineer. You will probably have to submit an FOIA request to get a copy of the report -- if one exists.

    Quote Quoting Dizzyhawk
    View Post
    3) On the ticket, the description in the #1 violation field is incomplete.
    It reads "46.61.400 SPEEDING 12 MPH OVER LIMIT (40 OR U ..."
    Is that alone cause for dismisal?

    What is incomplete about it?

    Barry

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Adequacy of Speed Limit Signs

    Thanks for the response Barry.

    If there hasn't been traffic investigation on that road, is that of any significance regarding the ticket?

    The incomplete part - there's wording that begins with a parenthesis, but doesn't end with one. " (40 OR U " doesn't make any sense.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Adequacy of Speed Limit Signs

    Quote Quoting Dizzyhawk
    View Post
    If there hasn't been traffic investigation on that road, is that of any significance regarding the ticket?
    If you can pinpoint your exact location where he cited you (look on the ticket) then it may help. However, it may come back to bite you in the...

    If you Read RCW 46.61.400(2) You can see that three speed limits are set forth by the law. 25 on City streets, 50 on county roads, and 60 on State Highways.

    Those speed limits can be altered as stated in RCW 46.61.405, 46.61.415, and 46.61.410.

    Don't worry about .415 it mainly deals with Increasing the maximum limit... if you're fighting, you're gonna want to show that they "illegally" DECREASED the speed limit. So it's either .410 or .405 that you need to look at.

    Pinpoint your exact location and that will be your first step towards fighting with an Engineering or Traffic Survey.

    Quote Quoting Dizzyhawk
    View Post
    The incomplete part - there's wording that begins with a parenthesis, but doesn't end with one. " (40 OR U " doesn't make any sense.
    That's not incomplete... It says you were speeding 12 over in a posted 40 or under.

    Brendan

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Adequacy of Speed Limit Signs

    I appreciate the feedback Brendan.

    I understand that RCW 46.61.400 sets all State Hwy max limits at 60mph and that
    RCW 46.61.405 can lower those limits "..upon the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation.."

    I have requested the speed reports (traffic investigation) for the hwy in question and look fwd to see if 85% of drivers are 35mph or under.

    About the speed report, if the data shows that 85% of drivers are going 40 mph, does that 85th percentile's speed compare to the posted speed limit of 35, or does it compare to my ticketed speed?

    a) If compared to the 35mph limit, it could be argued that the current max limit is too low (per RCW 46.61.405)
    b) If compared to my ticked speed, I'm still above the 85th percentile.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Adequacy of Speed Limit Signs

    Quote Quoting Dizzyhawk
    View Post
    About the speed report, if the data shows that 85% of drivers are going 40 mph, does that 85th percentile's speed compare to the posted speed limit of 35, or does it compare to my ticketed speed?
    It all depends on if you were cited in a city/town or just out in uninc snoho county.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Adequacy of Speed Limit Signs

    I have the speed reports. The exact intersection in question last had a speed study done in 1996 and the 85th% speed was 46 in the posted 35. (I was ticketed for doing 47).

    What do you think?

    I plan on filiing a Request for Discovery for Officer's statement and SMD calibration.
    What are the recomendations on how to present this Speed Study as well?

    Thanks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Big Sky Country
    Posts
    14

    Default Re: Adequacy of Speed Limit Signs

    Quote Quoting Dizzyhawk
    View Post
    My question involves a speeding ticket from the State of: Washington, Snohomish County, SR 531

    1) Is there a minimum distance required between speed limit signs?
    (in my case, the signs are 1.35 miles apart)

    2) How can I find out if an engineering and traffic investigation was conducted (85th percentile?) that determined the posted speed limit on this section of SR531 ? Should this be something I persue on a Discovery Request?

    3) On the ticket, the description in the #1 violation field is incomplete.
    It reads "46.61.400 SPEEDING 12 MPH OVER LIMIT (40 OR U ..."
    Is that alone cause for dismisal?

    I apparently have the new "computerized" ticket. I think it's called a "SECTOR"? The WSP officer has a small printer connected to a laptop apparently. This must seriously cut down on hand-written mistakes.

    I haven't had a ticket in 15years. The 35mph is too slow considering the conditions. It was a Fri morning, not another car within sight, sunny, clear and 300yd sight distance. As I crested the hill and was coasting down....there he was...700ft away, hiding with just the rear of his vehicle showing in shadows. I have to admit, that's a fantastic place to generate revenue for gravity-induced acceleration violations.

    There;s no one to blame but me, however, I want to exercise my legal rights by requesting a hearing....I think. ;-)
    All signs must conform to the MUTCD, if they do not, they do not legally exist.

    Can you answer a couple of questions?

    1-Who is the injured party?

    2-What injury occured?

    3-Are you being charged in criminal court or civil court?

    4-Have you made a plea in court? (have you stepped foot into the court room? or judges chambers to talk to the judge?)

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Similar Threads

  1. Speeding Tickets: Speeding Ticket, Officer's Recommended Limit Contradicts Posted Speed Limit
    By highonboba in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-06-2011, 10:13 AM
  2. Speeding Tickets: Speeding Infraction with No Actual Speed or Posted Limit Speed Noted on the Ticket
    By slee8251 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-22-2011, 03:40 PM
  3. Speeding Tickets: Wrong Location on Speeding Ticket - Speed Limit is Different Than Speed on Citation
    By crispycrouton in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 12-16-2010, 04:23 PM
  4. Speeding Tickets: Speed Limit Signs and Traffic Studies
    By Mr Ed in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-05-2009, 02:00 PM
  5. Speeding Tickets: Speeding Ticket - Alleged Speed And Posted Speed Limit Not Listed
    By grey in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-23-2008, 02:35 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources