Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Marysville, WA
    Posts
    4

    Default Speed Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington

    I received a surprise in the mail this week. Apparently wife's car was caught in a school zone speed camera on 6/2/10. I'm the registered owner so I am the recipient of the ticket by default.

    I'm trying to figure out the best way to deal with this. I know it will not go on my record, but out of principle I want to fight the damn thing since speed cameras are just another form of extortion.

    I think I have 2 ways to defend myself against this ticket.
    1) Site IRLJ 2.2 (d) since the infraction happened on 6/2/10 but the ticket was not even issued until 6/10/10. Wouldn't this be the same as if the officer didn't file the ticket in the 5 days allowed?

    2) As you can see from the photo the car was speeding, but as for as you can tell no one is driving. How can I be sited if the city can't prove I was driving.

    The catch 22 I'm trying to avoid is IDing my wife as the driver so she gets stuck with the ticket.

    Any advice for me?

    Thanks.






    I've just done a little more digging about the city code regarding speed cameras, which can be found here. http://www.mrsc.org/mc/lynnwood/Lynn...nwood1118.html


    I'm having a little trouble understanding this part.
    11.18.030 Prima facie presumption.

    A. In a traffic infraction case involving an infraction detected through the use of an automated traffic safety camera under this chapter, proof that the particular vehicle described in the notice of traffic infraction was involved in a stoplight violation, railroad crossing violation and/or school speed zone violation, together with proof that the person named in the notice of infraction was at the time of the violation the registered owner of the vehicle, shall constitute in evidence a prima facie presumption that the registered owner of the vehicle was the person in control of the vehicle at the point where, and for the time during which, the violation occurred.

    B. This presumption may be overcome only if the registered owner, under oath, states in a written statement to the court or in testimony before the court that the vehicle involved was, at the time, stolen or in the care, custody or control of some person other than the registered owner. (Ord. 2789 1, 2009; Ord. 2642 1, 2006)
    If I'm reading this correctly the section completely throws out any presumption of innocence. Doesn't the burden of proof rest on the city to prove the I was infact the person driving the car?

    11.18.010 Automated traffic safety cameras – Detection of violations – Restrictions.

    A. City law enforcement officers and persons commissioned by the Lynnwood police chief are authorized to use automated traffic cameras and related automated systems only to detect and record the image of: (1) stoplight violations at the intersection of two arterials; (2) railroad crossing violations; and (3) school speed zone violations; provided, however, pictures of the vehicle and the vehicle license plate may be taken only while an infraction is occurring, and the picture shall not reveal the face of the driver or of any passengers in the vehicle.
    Doesn't this section of the code prevent the city from capturing an image of the driver and then allow them to assume that the registered owner is the only person that ever operates the vehicle?

    Is there anything that would require me to identify the person driving? I should just be able to go to court and testify that I was not the driver and the city lacks the evidence to prove otherwise. The only problem I can foresee is that I have no proof that I wasn't driving the car that day. I had the day off and was home alone all day, but then again I shouldn't have to prove that I wasn't driving should I?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket Lynnwood Washington

    Quote Quoting quadrifoglio
    View Post
    I received a surprise in the mail this week. Apparently wife's car was caught in a school zone speed camera on 6/2/10. I'm the registered owner so I am the recipient of the ticket by default.
    Is your wife the second name on the ticket. If not, you can use this as a defense:

    The general governing statute for any PEV is RCW 46.63.170. A copy of this exact statute may be found here. Subsection (1) of the statute, paragraph (f) states: The registered owner of a vehicle is responsible for an infraction under RCW 46.63.030(1)(e) unless the registered owner overcomes the presumption in RCW 46.63.075, or, in the case of a rental car business, satisfies the conditions under subsection (3) of this section. If appropriate under the circumstances, a renter identified under subsection (3)(a) of this section is responsible for an infraction.

    The "presumption in RCW 46.63.075" is shown in paragraph (2) of the referenced statute: (2) This presumption may be overcome only if the registered owner states, under oath, in a written statement to the court or in testimony before the court that the vehicle involved was, at the time, stolen or in the care, custody, or control of some person other than the registered owner.

    So, this is what you do: Call the clerk of the court (it's on the Notice of Violation) and ask them if they have a specific form that says that the owner was not driving the cited vehicle at the time it was in violation of the law. Most courts have a special form.

    Go to the court, pick up the form, sign it, and YOU'RE DONE. The end. Case dismissed.

    I do not see any statute that requires the signer of the "testament" to release the name of the driver of the vehicle at the time that it was cited. It's that easy. As long as you can sign a piece of paper, you've gotten yourself out of paying the fine.

    Was the registered owner of the vehicle (you) driving at the time of the violation? I don't think so.

    Tricky, eh? Quite a loophole. So as long as your wife isn't a second registered owner, you've got the case dismissed.


    Quote Quoting quadrifoglio
    View Post
    I think I have 2 ways to defend myself against this ticket.
    1) Site IRLJ 2.2 (d) since the infraction happened on 6/2/10 but the ticket was not even issued until 6/10/10. Wouldn't this be the same as if the officer didn't file the ticket in the 5 days allowed?
    Yes, this is a perfect defense. But why use it if a registered owner wasn't driving...

    Quote Quoting quadrifoglio
    View Post
    2) As you can see from the photo the car was speeding, but as for as you can tell no one is driving. How can I be sited if the city can't prove I was driving.
    Actually, there is a statute that will not let the driver of the vehicle be identifiable. It's a violation of privacy, wouldn't you think?

    Quote Quoting quadrifoglio
    View Post
    The catch 22 I'm trying to avoid is IDing my wife as the driver so she gets stuck with the ticket.
    Just say that you didn't know who was driving the vehicle. Or, you can put your wife's name down, but you need not put her address down. No statute requires you to do that.

    I just showed you how to use the legal system to your advantage. Enjoy.

    Oh, and btw, tell your wife to slow down a bit in the school zones...

    Brendan

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Marysville, WA
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket Lynnwood Washington

    Quote Quoting BrendanjKeegan
    View Post
    Is your wife the second name on the ticket.

    I just showed you how to use the legal system to your advantage. Enjoy.

    Oh, and btw, tell your wife to slow down a bit in the school zones...

    Brendan
    Thanks for the quick reply. I am the only registered owner she is not on the title.

    This if the form that came with the infraction, but I don't want to fill it out as it asks for all the driver's details. Is the one you are talking about different?




    And yes I did lay into her about the speeding in a school zone. Her reply with "but there weren't any kids around" so I showed her the photo with kids 50 feet from the car and all she said was "oh". Hopefully I got the point through but I'm not sure.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket Lynnwood Washington

    I recommend going to the court, as they may have a different form to fill out.

    Their statement that "all fields must be filled out completely" is bogus.

    There is no statute in washington, at least not one that I have seen, or for that point, anywhere else on this forum, that says you need to fill out "driver's name, driver's street address, driver's city, state, and zip."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington

    Quote Quoting BrendanjKeegan
    View Post
    Quote Quoting quadrifoglio
    View Post
    1) Site IRLJ 2.2 (d) since the infraction happened on 6/2/10 but the ticket was not even issued until 6/10/10. Wouldn't this be the same as if the officer didn't file the ticket in the 5 days allowed?.
    Yes, this is a perfect defense.

    Perfect defense? Hmmmmm.

    Read the rule: "The notice must be filed within five days of issuance of the notice ...." And according to paragraph (1), "An infraction is issued on the date the infraction is signed by the citing officer or prosecuting authority."

    So, since the notice was electronically "signed" on the 10th, it would have to be "filed" with the court by the 17th. Since there is no indication as to when it was actually "filed", OP will have to call the Clerk of the Court and ask.

    Barry

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Marysville, WA
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington

    Well I went and saw the court clerk today. She wouldn't accept the delaration without all the fields filled. She said " I can take it to the judge, but he will not dismiss without knowing who to give the ticket to we cant' just have an unresolved ticket out there." I think that's total BS and now have a court date in October.

    Both RCW 46.63.075 and LMC 11.18.030 regarding Prima Facie presumtion state roughly the same thing
    "This presumption may be overcome only if the registered owner, under oath, states in a written statement to the court or in testimony before the court that the vehicle involved was, at the time, stolen or in the care, custody or control of some person other than the registered owner. (Ord. 2789 1, 2009; Ord. 2642 1, 2006)"

    Since it does not explicity state that it is my burden of proof to ID the actual driver, but only to testify that I was not in control of the vehicle. I plan on siting both these codes as my defense.

    Now the question. If the judge askes me directly under oath who was driving the car can in invoke spousal privilege to avoid answering the question?

    Worst case I'll rat out the real driver to teach her a lesson.

    Does this sound like a reasonable defense?

    Thanks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington

    Quote Quoting quadrifoglio
    View Post
    Now the question. If the judge askes me directly under oath who was driving the car can in invoke spousal privilege to avoid answering the question?
    Absolutely not. If there is any pressure from either the court or the prosecution, then I would reply, "With all due respect, your honor, there is no statute that requires me to ID the driver of the vehicle. Unless THE PROSECUTION (emphasize that word) can come fourth and cite the statute which requires me to do so, and shows me the direct wording of the statute, I believe that I am not legally obligated to do so, and I will not."

    At that point, you're pretty much screwed, so get ready to hire a lawyer for an appeal.

    If the judge tries to point out a statute, I would reply, "Your honor, again, with all due respect, the constitution prohibits a judge from acting in the dual capacity. I believe what you are doing is a job for a prosecutor."

    But if you so wish, and this is actually something I might do, you can request a change of judge.

    Quote Quoting CRLJ 40(f)
    Change of Judge. In any case pending in any court of limited jurisdiction, unless otherwise provided by law, the judge thereof shall be deemed disqualified to hear and try the case when he is in anywise interested or prejudiced. The judge, of his own initiative, may enter an order disqualifying himself; and he shall also disqualify himself under the provisions of this rule if, before the jury is sworn or the trial is commenced, a party files an affidavit that such party cannot have a fair and impartial trial by reason of the interest or prejudice of the judge or for other ground provided by law. Only one such affidavit shall be filed by the same party in the case and such affidavit shall be made as to only one of the judges of said court.

    All right to an affidavit of prejudice will be considered waived where filed more than 10 days after the case is set for trial, unless the affidavit alleges a particular incident, conversation or utterance by the judge, which was not known to the party or his attorney within the 10-day period. In multiple judge courts, or where a pro tempore or visiting judge is designated as the trial judge, the 10-day period shall commence on the date that the defendant or his attorney has actual notice of assignment or reassignment to a designated trial judge.
    Just create an affidavit that says you believe that you are being prejudiced by the judge's requiring of you to ID the actual driver when the law does not state that it is needed. It will probably be moved to district court, and then you'll have a much more fair trial.

    Others might not go as far as to do this, but if you think you are walking into an unfair hearing, then speak up.

    Quote Quoting quadrifoglio
    View Post
    Does this sound like a reasonable defense?
    Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

    Brendan

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington

    Brendan, are you sure that all "Civil Rules" apply in an "Infraction" case? I'm not. We say that tickets are "civil" in nature, simply because they are NOT criminal. But, the law clearly delineates the three types of cases, criminal, civil, and infraction -- each with their own set of Court Rules.

    I'm not saying it does NOT apply, just wondering if you can provide authority to say that CRLJ 40 DOES apply in an infraction case.

    Barry

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington

    Yes, Barry, you are correct in saying that not all Civil rules have proper "authority" in an infraction case. However, in this case, IRLJ 2.6(g) gives specific direction that CRLJ 40(f) applies.

    It confused me at first, too. However, I probably wouldn't request a change of judge in a case unless I felt that it was majorly biased. It was just a suggestion if the OP felt the hearing would be unfair.

    Brendan

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,577

    Default Re: Speed Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington

    Cool. Thanks.

    Barry

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Red Light Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington
    By AdHawk in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 11-28-2011, 09:18 AM
  2. Speeding Tickets: Speed Camera Ticket from Renton, Washington
    By loopie in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-24-2011, 02:51 PM
  3. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Red Light Camera Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington
    By Julian in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-20-2011, 12:55 PM
  4. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Camera Ticket for Right Turn on Red Light in Lynnwood, Washington
    By skyrocket101 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-14-2011, 11:00 PM
  5. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Red Light Ticket in Lynnwood, Washington
    By Philiminilli in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-04-2010, 08:18 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources