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  1. #21

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting freedomminute
    View Post
    I would call it a "Traffic and Engineering Survey that justifies the speed limit on abc road at the location of xyz". (Obviously you put in the name of road and whatever location info makes sense. Possibly use the location as it is written on the ticket.)

    Perhaps someone else has something else to add?

    Got it. I will request it again.

    Anyone else got anything to add ?

    Thanks

  2. #22

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Alright, I think I got the document we are looking for. (The traffic survey), I have attached it here.

    File: http://www.2shared.com/document/sUP_mOcd/Scan001.html

    ** The link is on the bottom right hand corner..its hiding there.

    I just need some help making sense of all the numbers, anyone familiar with this?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting Luther12
    View Post
    Alright, I think I got the document we are looking for. (The traffic survey), I have attached it here.

    File: http://www.2shared.com/document/sUP_mOcd/Scan001.html

    ** The link is on the bottom right hand corner..its hiding there.

    I just need some help making sense of all the numbers, anyone familiar with this?
    Those numbers mean the following:

    85th Percentile Speed = 49.8 mph

    Nearest 5mph increment = 50mph

    However, the "1 accident per year" is 6.25 times higher than the "0.16 accidents per Million Vehicle Miles per year".

    Pursuant to CA Vehicle Code Section 627 (specifically Subsection (b)/Subparagraph(2)), a 5mph speed limit reduction to 45mph would be justified.

    Posted speed limit = 45mph

    Therefore: No Speed Trap...

    Sorry...

  4. #24

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Sorry, but by saying "Sorry..."

    You are saying I have absolutely NO CHANCE of winning?

    Clarify.

    Thanks

    P.S: Also, If I end up going to court and LOSING, do I just have to pay the original fine or are there any OTHER COURT FEES that will pile up on top of my existing charge?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting Luther12
    View Post
    Sorry, but by saying "Sorry..."

    You are saying I have absolutely NO CHANCE of winning?

    Clarify.
    "Sorry" as in "after spending the time/effort to obtain the survey, the posted speed limit is justified; therefore, a 'speed trap argument' (which is typically the element that could get you an easy dismissal of a 22350) will not work in this case".

    Assuming that the officer does:
    • Present the survey, (he more than likely will) AND
    • Present training certificates (he more than likely will), AND
    • Testify that your speed under the conditions existing at the time was unsafe (he more than likely will)...

    ... then the burden shifts to you to show -by competent evidence- that your speed was in fact safe and prudent and that you did not endanger person or property.

    The "competent evidence" is usually the part which makes beating this citation -when the survey justifies the limit- particularly difficult.

    If he fails to do any of the three things (bullets) I mentioned above, you can then move for a dismissal (pursuant to Vehicle Code section 40802) on the grounds that the prosecution did NOT prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Yes, it is sort of complicated and confusing at times... But in short, when the speed limit IS justified by the related E&T survey, then almost all hope is gone!

    Quote Quoting Luther12
    View Post
    P.S: Also, If I end up going to court and LOSING, do I just have to pay the original fine or are there any OTHER COURT FEES that will pile up on top of my existing charge?
    There will be a traffic school administrative FEE that the court will charge (as well as a traffic school enrollment FEE (which you will owe to the traffic school)) but that is not considered part of the fine and it will only be owed if/when you choose the traffic school option.

    There may also be an additional FEE that the court will charge if you choose an extension to pay or a payment plan.

    Other than those, the FINE amount as stated on your courtesy notice comprises the actual/total FINE which you will be ordered to pay (if you lose)... Unless the judge reduces it for you (assuming you lose). No telling on whether that will happen or not but you're free to ask.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    "Sorry" as in "after spending the time/effort to obtain the survey, the posted speed limit is justified; therefore, a 'speed trap argument' (which is typically the element that could get you an easy dismissal of a 22350) will not work in this case".

    Assuming that the officer does:
    • Present the survey, (he more than likely will) AND
    • Present training certificates (he more than likely will), AND
    • Testify that your speed under the conditions existing at the time was unsafe (he more than likely will)...

    ... then the burden shifts to you to show -by competent evidence- that your speed was in fact safe and prudent and that you did not endanger person or property.

    The "competent evidence" is usually the part which makes beating this citation -when the survey justifies the limit- particularly difficult.

    If he fails to do any of the three things (bullets) I mentioned above, you can then move for a dismissal (pursuant to Vehicle Code section 40802) on the grounds that the prosecution did NOT prove your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Yes, it is sort of complicated and confusing at times... But in short, when the speed limit IS justified by the related E&T survey, then almost all hope is gone!


    There will be a traffic school administrative FEE that the court will charge (as well as a traffic school enrollment FEE (which you will owe to the traffic school)) but that is not considered part of the fine and it will only be owed if/when you choose the traffic school option.

    There may also be an additional FEE that the court will charge if you choose an extension to pay or a payment plan.

    Other than those, the FINE amount as stated on your courtesy notice comprises the actual/total FINE which you will be ordered to pay (if you lose)... Unless the judge reduces it for you (assuming you lose). No telling on whether that will happen or not but you're free to ask.
    I see. So should I just not show up to court? (Since I know I will loose now?) or Go to court anyway and look like an idiot.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
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    625

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    With the #2 violation being 61 in a 45, it's not a cakewalk, but as long as you bone up on the 30 questions defense and come prepared to cross-examine the officer to refute any arguments that the officer will cite as to why your speed created a danger, your chances are good enough to make it worthwhile. Any luck on getting a copy of the officer's declaration for the ticket #2 yet?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,622

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Absolutely you should go to court. The 30 question defense is a very good one... despite what That Guy says. Furthermore, I have been to court where the cop does NOT bring a copy of the speed survey. Also, if he does, that survey MUST be a certified true copy. It cannot simply be a photocopy. If it is, object to its admission into evidence. Then move for dismissal due to lack of a survey. It works.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting HonkingAntelope
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    With the #2 violation being 61 in a 45, it's not a cakewalk
    Correction: 71 in 45...

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    625

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Correction: 71 in 45...
    take a look at his first or second reply in this thread - he said 71 was a typo.

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