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  1. #11

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting EWYLTJ
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    Did you ever get the speed survey for ticket #2?
    EWYLTJ: I am concerned about if this would even be effective. I drove by the same spot today and right before (maybe .25 miles) the speed-trap, I see a sign that says "Speed Checked By Radar", would the whole 'traffic survey' argument fall short because of this sign?

    Also, where EXACTLY am I getting this survey from? Cal Trans? Local PD ? Most of these people seem very confused.

    I am wondering what I should do with this Ticket #2 now... I don't know if I should write up a detailed 'argument' like I did on the previous ticket OR as HonkingAntelope suggested, simply write: "I am not guilty" on the TBD and go on from there.


    @HonkingAntelope: I actually did the TBD (Trial by Declaration) LONG time ago for Ticket #1. What I filed recently was a TDN (Trial De Novo) and as mentioned earlier, the court did not have all the documents (ie: the officers declaration) "scanned" yet due to "the imaging dept" being 'backed up'.

    I am going to call the court tomorrow and ask them if the officers declaration is in the system yet. Other than that, should I file for "request for discovery" also? How do I do that? Another form?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting Luther12
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    EWYLTJ: I am concerned about if this would even be effective. I drove by the same spot today and right before (maybe .25 miles) the speed-trap, I see a sign that says "Speed Checked By Radar", would the whole 'traffic survey' argument fall short because of this sign?
    Nope... that sign has no effect on whether the speed limit is justified or not.
    Quote Quoting Luther12
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    Also, where EXACTLY am I getting this survey from? Cal Trans? Local PD ? Most of these people seem very confused.
    You need to do some research on your own to find out who conducts the Engineering & Traffic Surveys for that segment of the roadway. Start by contacting CalTrans and if it is not under their jurisdiction, they can refer you to the agency in charge.
    Quote Quoting Luther12
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    I am wondering what I should do with this Ticket #2 now... I don't know if I should write up a detailed 'argument' like I did on the previous ticket OR as HonkingAntelope suggested, simply write: "I am not guilty" on the TBD and go on from there.
    AGAIN, get the E&T Survey as that is the only way that you can substantiate your defense against that charge (assuming that the posted limit is not justified by the survey)...

  3. #13

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    Nope... that sign has no effect on whether the speed limit is justified or not.

    You need to do some research on your own to find out who conducts the Engineering & Traffic Surveys for that segment of the roadway. Start by contacting CalTrans and if it is not under their jurisdiction, they can refer you to the agency in charge.

    AGAIN, get the E&T Survey as that is the only way that you can substantiate your defense against that charge (assuming that the posted limit is not justified by the survey)...
    10-4. I am on it. I will get the necessary information and report back.

    Appreciate it.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Making some progress.

    I got a copy of the Traffic & Engineering survey for the given stretch of road. I do not know exactly how to read the data however.... at least how to read it in a way that will help me build a decent argument in this case. (re: ticket #1)

    (see attachment: http://www.2shared.com/document/3ZR2DOqh/Scan001.html )




    As for ticket #2: These bureaucrats are absolutely ridiculous. I've visited the court 3 times already asking for a copy of the officer's declaration and they kept saying "our imaging is backed up and it will take a while" ... well wtf is "a while" ? If I said, It would take me a "while" to pay my car bill, they'd reposes it already.

    Anyway, I called today and the 'representative' on the other end of the phone tells me that "I absolutely CANNOT get a copy of the officers declaration as it is considered "Evidence"" HUH ? I tell her it's supposed to be a "Open Trial" and she puts me on hold for another 10 minutes to confirm with her 'supervisor' and tells me what the court clerk told me : " Our imaging is backed up.. sorry".

    This is ridiculous. (I know I am stating the obvious ... still..)

    Any input guys? Specifically regarding ticket #1 / traffic survey

    Thanks

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting Luther12
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    Making some progress.

    I got a copy of the Traffic & Engineering survey for the given stretch of road. I do not know exactly how to read the data however.... at least how to read it in a way that will help me build a decent argument in this case. (re: ticket #1)

    (see attachment: http://www.2shared.com/document/3ZR2DOqh/Scan001.html )
    That link is whacked... At any rate, E&T surveys mean zilch for a 22349(a) violation...

  6. #16

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    @ThatGUY: the link is fine.

    If it is "zilch" for a 22340(a) violation, what would YOU do if you were in my shoes? any alternatives?

  7. #17

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    That link is whacked... At any rate, E&T surveys mean zilch for a 22349(a) violation...
    Can anyone chime in ?

  8. #18

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting Luther12
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    Can anyone chime in ?
    Quote Quoting Luther12
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    I got a copy of the Traffic & Engineering survey for the given stretch of road. I do not know exactly how to read the data however.... at least how to read it in a way that will help me build a decent argument in this case. (re: ticket #1)

    (see attachment: http://www.2shared.com/document/3ZR2DOqh/Scan001.html )
    That does not look like the type of T&E survey you would need (justifying the speed limit). It looks like a traffic volume survey.

    I think you are causing confusion about your two tickets with possible typos.

    For ticket #1 you are charged with a 22349(a) violation. A T&E survey is not going to help you for a charge of exceeding the maximum speed limit because the prosecution doesn’t have to justify the speed limit with a survey. It is set by statute (the one you were charged with). Above you said that the document you posted at the link is for ticket #1. That may be a typo and you meant ticket #2, but that is why TG responded as he did.

    For Ticket #2 you are charged with a 22350 violation and the speed limit of 45 mph would have to be justified with a T&E survey. So you need the T&E survey used to set the speed limit for the stretch of road on which you received your ticket. If the document you posted is for ticket #2, as I said above, that is not the correct survey you need.

    By the way, if anyone else wants to view the document and is having trouble finding the download link, it is cleverly hidden at the right hand bottom of the box and says in very small type: “Save file to your PC: click here”. The word “here” is the link and it’s right above where it prompts you to “Download 2shared toolbar”. I missed it the first few times I looked at the page.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    @freedomminute: I see. I think I did make a typo .. Oops. I meant ticket #2 .. for the traffic survey. If that is the wrong survey what is the correct survey called? I just asked for a "Traffic & Engineering Survey" for that stretch of road and thats what I got.


    As for ticket #1: I am still waiting to receive a copy of the officer(s) decleration and the court is in the process of making a new trial date.

  10. #20

    Default Re: Should I Request a "Trial De Novo" and Go to Court

    Quote Quoting Luther12
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    @freedomminute: I see. I think I did make a typo .. Oops. I meant ticket #2 .. for the traffic survey. If that is the wrong survey what is the correct survey called? I just asked for a "Traffic & Engineering Survey" for that stretch of road and thats what I got.
    I would call it a "Traffic and Engineering Survey that justifies the speed limit on abc road at the location of xyz". (Obviously you put in the name of road and whatever location info makes sense. Possibly use the location as it is written on the ticket.)

    Perhaps someone else has something else to add?

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