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  1. #1
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    Default Re: Township is Claiming They Don't Have Inspection Reports

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    If you have a complaint or want to check into this further, you can contact the Division of Codes and Standards or the dept. of Code Official Information or the Construction Reporter at the Department of Community Affairs in Trenton.
    Thanks, but I think you have gotten off track from my question. My question was one about the record keeping requirements on the part of the construction office in the local township, not about building codes or inspector licensing. The inspection occurred in response to a tenant complaint regarding serious potential hazards at an existing, occupied apartment complex. This was not new construction, or an inspection for a certificate of occupancy.

    Quote Quoting budwad
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    As an aside, we used to have a building inspector that would never look up (something to do with his neck I guess). He would do his inspection and then rip the number off the inspection sticker and staple it to your application folder. That was the extent of the report. If he found anything that needed changing, he would say, "fix it or I will get you the next time." He never came back to see if it was fixed and by the time the next inspection was due, it would be covered up but he would ask, "I remember you had something that you had to fix. Did you fix it?" Of course I did.
    Per my response to L-1, the inspector here was definitely not like this. Furthermore, this wasn't a standard inspection (such as for a certificate of occupancy). The inspection occurred because of a complaint of a serious structural failure, and a concern that there might be more on the property. Even a lazy, careless, etc. inspector would be on notice that he could not just rubber stamp this. Finally, the inspector was warned that he was being contacted because the property ownership/management could not be trusted to address the problem, despite its seriousness.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Township is Claiming They Don't Have Inspection Reports

    You can ask the agency about its policies for creating and retaining records and, from there, determine if the agency followed its rules in relation to the records that might have been generated from your complaints, but apparently were not. Of course, nothing in that is going to make records suddenly appear if they weren't in fact created.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Township is Claiming They Don't Have Inspection Reports

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    You can ask the agency about its policies for creating and retaining records and, from there, determine if the agency followed its rules in relation to the records that might have been generated from your complaints, but apparently were not.
    Thanks. A good idea, but...

    1) The "agency" is a small local township construction office with an administrative lady and 2-3 inspectors (electrical, building, plumbing), one or more of whom may be part-time or contract.

    2) "Policies"? I think they MIGHT have some semi-standard ways of doing things.

    3) It would be a waste of time to ask. As stated, I put in several records requests directly to the construction office over a period of about two months, and kept getting put off. It was only after I put in a formal records request to the township's designated record custodian that I got a (prompt) response from that same construction office. Why? Because the state law requires that prompt response. That is why I was wondering if anyone knew of any state requirements pertaining to record keeping (vs. record disclosure) as applies here.

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    Of course, nothing in that is going to make records suddenly appear if they weren't in fact created.
    Well, that's the point. The inspector almost certainly created records. Did the construction office keep or maintain them? Were they required to by law?

    Note the wording of their reponse to my open records request... ""We do not have any permits or inspections showing on our system..." OK, do they have relevant records not "on the system"?

    Quote Quoting L-1
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    My whole point was:

    1. Reports are often not written until a project is completed because there are too many variables. Sometimes an author will wait until the event is over to write his report, so he doesn't have to go back, amend or re-write things.
    In your previous post, I undertood you to mean that the inspector said that the effort was ongoing as an excuse to put off providing what I had requested.

    Quote Quoting L-1
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    2. If you have multiple projects going, sometimes you just can't complete them all and get every report written before your employment ends. When that happens, things get left for the next guy to piece together and try to finish. In turn, some reports may never get written.
    I have no knowledge that the inspector left his position without adequate time to wrap this up. He might have left a couple of months afterwards for all I know.

    Even if he left without actually writing a "report", anything he left for the next guy would be "records". I did request all relevant documentation, although I don't know if the inspector's notes, etc. would be subject to open records laws.

    I would think that the township would keep records for their own CYA. If there is a problem with an injury or death later, or if the property owner wanted to contest the findings because of the substantial hassle and cost, I would think that the township would want to have all the documentation available.


    Quote Quoting L-1
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    But of course, you know best.
    I honestly don't get this.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Township is Claiming They Don't Have Inspection Reports

    Quote Quoting trevor463
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    The inspector almost certainly created records.
    Because... you say so.
    Quote Quoting trevor463
    Did the construction office keep or maintain them?
    According to them, no.
    Quote Quoting trevor463
    Were they required to by law?
    Only if they existed.

    You are free to litigate your public records request, and to attempt to prove that the records exist and are being wrongfully withheld.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Township is Claiming They Don't Have Inspection Reports

    My whole point was:

    1. Reports are often not written until a project is completed because there are too many variables. Sometimes an author will wait until the event is over to write his report, so he doesn't have to go back, amend or re-write things.

    2. If you have multiple projects going, sometimes you just can't complete them all and get every report written before your employment ends. When that happens, things get left for the next guy to piece together and try to finish. In turn, some reports may never get written.

    But of course, you know best.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Township is Claiming They Don't Have Inspection Reports

    Quote Quoting trevor463
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    Thanks, but I think you have gotten off track from my question. My question was one about the record keeping requirements on the part of the construction office in the local township, not about building codes or inspector licensing. The inspection occurred in response to a tenant complaint regarding serious potential hazards at an existing, occupied apartment complex. This was not new construction, or an inspection for a certificate of occupancy.
    You really don't know how things work in NJ when it comes to construction code and building inspectors, do you? Who do you think sets the standards as to what an inspector is required to do or report? It is the Department of Community Affairs through the administrative code NJAC and the rule making procedure.

    The Division of Codes and Standards within the Department administers and enforces the Uniform Construction Code Act, and also licenses individuals to administer and enforce the UCC. Any person aggrieved by a ruling of the agency under this Act is “entitled to a hearing pursuant to the Administrative Procedure Act.”
    The Uniform Construction Code Act is not a building code per se. The full act.

    N.J.A.C. 5:23-7.1 to be accessible.

    6. Verification of compliance with N.J.A.C. 5:23-3.5, Posting structures.

    (e) Inspections records: The enforcing agency shall make a written record of all inspections, including any discrepancies or violations noted and shall maintain those reports as a public record which shall be available for public inspection during normal business hours.
    You wanted the law well there it is. But has been pointed out, if the record was not created, it doesn't exist.


    I suggest you read this:

    http://www.state.nj.us/dca/divisions...co_comment.pdf

    In addition, any permits that were issued for alteration of a building was reported to the Constructor Report at the DCA so if your town doesn't have the permits records, the DCA may have a record.

    Local construction officials issue building permits for new construction, additions, and alterations. New construction permits are for new buildings. Permits for additions authorize work that adds space to an existing structure. Alterations also are for work on existing buildings, but no new space is added. Examples of alterations include tenant fit ups, new roofs, and repairs to existing structures.

    Was there a notice of violation or to abate sent to the property owner? Do you know? If there was, then the record is somewhere. If it was instead a verbal notification that the property owner should fix the problem and then he took out a permit to fix it, you won't find an inspection report or notice of violation even though it is required by law.

    But if the permit for the work was taken out, there is a record of the Permit (and what it was for) even if it is only in a log of permits issued for that year. Each permit is numbered with the prefix of the year and then then the consecutive number of the permit issued. If it is not in the log, then no permit was issued.

    I will update with this:

    § 5:23-2.16A. Records retention

    (a) Copies of the following documents shall be retained by the construction official for the life of the building
    or structure:
    1. Construction applications;
    2. Permits;
    3. Permit updates;
    4. Decisions on applications for variations;
    5. Decisions of the Construction Board of Appeals;
    6. Certificates of occupancy;
    7. Elevator inspections;
    8. The ongoing inspection control card; and
    9. Notices of unsafe structure.
    (b) Permits that have been revoked shall be kept for at least three years, or until the building or structure
    is demolished, whichever comes first.
    (c) Plans and specifications including amended drawings, shall be retained by the construction official for
    a period of at least 10 years unless litigation is pending.
    1. Plans and specifications, including amended drawings, shall be retained for the life of the building or
    structure for the following:
    i. Hospitals and emergency care facilities;
    ii. Fire, rescue and police stations;
    iii. Designated emergency shelters;
    iv. Designated emergency preparedness, communication, and operation centers;
    v. Power generating stations;
    vi. Buildings of Groups H-1 or H-2;
    vii. Prisons;
    viii. Casino hotels;
    ix. Aviation control towers;
    This document is provided as a courtesy only; the official Administrative Rules
    of the State of NJ are available through LexisNexis, the publisher licensed by
    the NJ Office of Administrative Law, or through your local public library.
    Page 30 of 57
    x. Air traffic control centers; and
    xi. Emergency aircraft hangers.

    2. Inspection and certificate logs shall be retained by the construction official for a period of at least 10
    years.
    (d) Copies of additional documents may be retained at the discretion of the construction official.

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