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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    1,142

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    Insubordination my hind foot! This is NOT insubordination. Insubordination is a term some people around here just love to throw around. What you are being asked to do...just tell them no. Tell them you would choose not to discuss this issue. Let the chips fall. If they are stupid enough to fire you for this reason, which I do not for one minute believe HR would allow them to do, then you will qualify for unemployment benefits. You're right you do NOT have to obey orders from any supervisor that are not work related. These people are bullying you, and you need to just let them rant. They have no power here except what every supervisor has over employees, the right to terminate, but HR does have one whole lot of authority in saying what a person can be terminated for. If you are terminated for not a valid work related misconduct reason, (and failing to disclose who is gossiping about some affair the boss is supposedly having is NOT misconduct) then you can still be fired, in this "at will" employment world, but it's unusual. You'll probably qualify for unemployment benefits, which is always your recourse in these type situations, and this will cost the employer money.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Lake Chapala
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    3,043

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    Ummm, we forgot to mention that HRinDEVON's "legal" advice is, well, a little out there. Sorry.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    757

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    Quote Quoting eerelations
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    Ummm, we forgot to mention that HRinDEVON's "legal" advice is, well, a little out there. Sorry.
    +1

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    OP, on the other board where you asked this, I just asked you a couple of questions now that I'm able to actually give some time and attention to your problem. If you could answer them for me I'll see if I can give you some more detailed info.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    Quote Quoting cbg
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    OP, on the other board where you asked this, I just asked you a couple of questions now that I'm able to actually give some time and attention to your problem. If you could answer them for me I'll see if I can give you some more detailed info.
    Thank you. I think I am all set for now and know how to handle it.
    Sorry about posting on 2 boards at the same time. I was under the impression that they are 2 different sites with different participants.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    No problem posting on multiple boards. They are different ownership; some of the membership overlaps but not all of it. I just happen to be one of the overlaps.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,142

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    To warn someone they may be considered guilty of "insubordination" because they refuse to discuss a personal matter as described when commanded to do so by their supervisor is ...well, I just don't think it's helpful. Sure, it's an "at will" work world, and I suppose it's probably insubordination in someone's world. But in my experience, that's a dog that usually does not hunt well at all in unemployment insurance appeals and it would not be a very good idea for employers who are trying to keep people from receiving unemployment to use it a lot, though it gets thrown around a bit, certainly But in this situation the employee shouldn't be worrying at all about whether they can tell a rude or overbearing supervisor "No I do not choose to discuss this personal matter," without committing some big violation or disobedience.

    This isn't the military, this supervisor does not have the power of life and death over you, and this isn't quite an occasion of failure to comply with a direct work related instruction from the employer. Sure, they can fire you for being insubordinate if you refuse to tell them what the other employees really said about their new haircut, or they can order you to kiss their ankle each morning when you walk in the door. But it's not something the employee needs to worry about unduly while dealing with bullying behavior such as this in the workplace.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    in alto mare
    Posts
    1,123

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    Keep a little notebook, not a file on a company computer, but your own personal notebook or digital file you can upload to the cloud and document what they say and do to you just in case they do try to terminate you. Keep a copy of any email correspondence. Keep it professional (which you are doing anyway).

    I worked for a gov. contactor that repaired Navy ships and a group of about 30 of us returned from an overseas trip connected through JFK. Boss was a drunk; drank the whole flight over. Connecting flight was weather delayed and all the other flights that day were canx. We were told to remain in the gate area.

    He took a few of the guys and went off in search of more alcohol, not telling me where he was going but when we were called to the flight he and his buddies were not there...they were in some bar, drinking, and didn't hear the announcement. Those of us who stayed made it home. They didn't, and somehow it became MY fault that a 65 year old man ended up renting a van (drunk) and driving the rest of the way home. Back in the home office, I was bullied..snide remarks came even from HR. HR sided with him. He and I almost went to fisticuffs in the parking lot. I wish I'd stayed and let them try to fire me, but I walked out and had another job within a week. (This was in the era before cell phones, by the way.) You might want to ask yourself how much longer you want to keep working for these people.

    Good luck to you.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    Quote Quoting comment/ator
    View Post
    Insubordination my hind foot! This is NOT insubordination. Insubordination is a term some people around here just love to throw around. What you are being asked to do...just tell them no. Tell them you would choose not to discuss this issue. Let the chips fall. If they are stupid enough to fire you for this reason, which I do not for one minute believe HR would allow them to do, then you will qualify for unemployment benefits. You're right you do NOT have to obey orders from any supervisor that are not work related. These people are bullying you, and you need to just let them rant. They have no power here except what every supervisor has over employees, the right to terminate, but HR does have one whole lot of authority in saying what a person can be terminated for. If you are terminated for not a valid work related misconduct reason, (and failing to disclose who is gossiping about some affair the boss is supposedly having is NOT misconduct) then you can still be fired, in this "at will" employment world, but it's unusual. You'll probably qualify for unemployment benefits, which is always your recourse in these type situations, and this will cost the employer money.
    Thank you. I don't think I will get fired/laid off at the moment. It'll probably happen down the road just because it's hard to imagine working together again. I will just have to deal with this. Thank you all

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    988

    Default Re: Pressured by Managment to Identify Co-Workers Who Complained About a Supervisor

    One does not need to be a legal expert to suggest that You have an at will situation ...and either side can part company at the drop of the hat and need not advance a reason.
    If you,crossed swords with your boss over anything you may be on her short list.

    If you are fired ...and apply for UC thats a new day and deal with those issues if they arise

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