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  1. #1
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    Quote Quoting donzoh1
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    On what basis would the court direct the defendant to make such a declaration?
    A judge can ask a person just about anything he chooses to. The 5th Amendment would not apply. Whether that would be done or not, i can't say, but the judge can and often will ask clarifying questions in traffic as well as criminal trials.

    Apparently, the Commission of Judicial Performance won't do anything about it so my guess is that an appeal beyond the Appellate Division will be required...or a public outcry.
    Maybe someday ... or, maybe, it's perfectly acceptable and lawful.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    A judge can ask a person just about anything he chooses to. The 5th Amendment would not apply. Whether that would be done or not, i can't say, but the judge can and often will ask clarifying questions in traffic as well as criminal trials.


    Maybe someday ... or, maybe, it's perfectly acceptable and lawful.
    And I can ask for a million dollars. If the defendant is obviously not the person pictured, but is required to name the driver, the next logical step would be to charge the law enforcement officer with perjury for signing a sworn Probable Cause Statement on the Notice to Appear without such cause. I wouldn't think the court would try to enlist the defendant's help in a low-level criminal investigation in that case.

    The Sacramento Court practice is not acceptable and might be illegal, depending on what the Appeals Court eventually determines. The best purpose of TBD with respect to Red Light Camera citations is probably disputing identity. When identity is obviously wrong, the defendant should not be required to miss time from work or undertake other expense (i.e. driving from another county, etc.) in order to make an effective defense. (I know there are probably cops out there don't care much about this line of thinking as they are PAID to be there in court.) Need I quote the Goulet case again here?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    The court can ask what it will, and there is no law that would permit a defendant to lawfully refuse to answer with impunity. As I said, whether this is a practice engaged in by the Sacramento Courts, I can't say. Only time will tell whether Sacramento's practice on TBWD's are legal or not. Depending on how one reads the construction of the statute, it is possible that they might be able to create a rule that limits TBWD. Who knows? I guess we shall see if and when someone challenges this.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    The court can ask what it will, and there is no law that would permit a defendant to lawfully refuse to answer with impunity. As I said, whether this is a practice engaged in by the Sacramento Courts, I can't say. Only time will tell whether Sacramento's practice on TBWD's are legal or not. Depending on how one reads the construction of the statute, it is possible that they might be able to create a rule that limits TBWD. Who knows? I guess we shall see if and when someone challenges this.
    Since the initial appeal would be heard in the Appellate Division of the same court that created the silly policy, it won't be overturned at that stage. Appeals past that are more rare as they cost actual money. It the defendant is convicted because of the substantial cost or difficulty in getting to court in person when they would have reasonably been acquitted at TBD, the contempt created in the defendant's mind for the justice system in general is well deserved.

    If I am ever asked in court who was driving, I'm not sure what my answer will be. However, my next stop will be the DA's office in order to make sure the perjury charge is filed against the officer who signed the probable cause statement when there was obviously no resemblance between the evidence photo and the DMV photo on file. The widespread practice of just sending the citation to the registered owner without probable cause on the chance that they will identify the actual driver, whether by mail or in court, is CONTEMPTIBLE. No person involved in the "justice system" should defend this despicable process.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    I am unaware of any "probable cause statement" (or adffidavit) that accompanies infractions forwarded to the court. I might agree that this is a problem IF an agency does sign them and a picture clearly does not match a DMV photo of the person cited, but, I don't know that this is the case since there appears to be no legal requirement to do so. Though I do not work and have never worked in a city that has operated these devices at the time I was there, so I can't say what the specific practice might be. But, pursuant to the CVC the citation serves as the complaint and no PC affidavit is required.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    As we used to tell someone else who constantly complained about California's traffic laws:

    If it bothers you that much, quit complaining on a message board that is here to help people with actual problems and get out there and DO something. Contact your congresscritter. Go get a red light ticket and fight it all the way to get an authoritative ruling on it one way or the other.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    As we used to tell someone else who constantly complained about California's traffic laws:

    If it bothers you that much, quit complaining on a message board that is here to help people with actual problems and get out there and DO something. Contact your congresscritter. Go get a red light ticket and fight it all the way to get an authoritative ruling on it one way or the other.
    Thanks for the ideas. (I've already received three of them and defeated them all.) On the question of helping people, maybe if enough people knew about or cared about what the Sacramento Court is doing, things would change there. Assuming that either the judges or those who appointed them are elected, it definitely would. As you may know, the appeals process beyond the local Appellate Division is kind of expensive so I don't envision myself doing that, assuming it was necessary.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    I am unaware of any "probable cause statement" (or adffidavit) that accompanies infractions forwarded to the court. I might agree that this is a problem IF an agency does sign them and a picture clearly does not match a DMV photo of the person cited, but, I don't know that this is the case since there appears to be no legal requirement to do so. Though I do not work and have never worked in a city that has operated these devices at the time I was there, so I can't say what the specific practice might be. But, pursuant to the CVC the citation serves as the complaint and no PC affidavit is required.
    Actually, there already is a case in California on this precise issue. The citation/notice to appear included a statement by the officer reviewing the photo evidence that the notice is based on photographic evidence and upon information and belief. After the deputy admitted that numerous citations in his jurisdiction were mailed even when there had been no comparison of that evidence to the DMV photo on file, the judge determined that there was no reasonable belief that the person named had actually committed a crime. And, he suggested that the practice was arguably a routine practice of perjury by the officers involved.

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