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  1. #1
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Public Drunkenness While on Probation

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Pennsylvania

    I should preface this by saying that I am talking to my lawyer and the probation office tomorrow after work. I am just anxious to possibly get some feedback before that.

    I got arrested for public drunkenness while walking home. I was charged with two DUIs in 2007 (I got one, and then got another in a different county before being formally charged with the first. So, my lawyer got me a deal that I got charged for two 1st offense DUIs.). I have met all of my probation requirements except for paying my costs in full.

    It has been so long since I have been in legal trouble that I forget some of the conditions. I am assuming that I am still on probation since I haven't paid my costs in full. Is this correct? Neither court summary sheet for either DUI list probation under the Sentence Type, and I haven't had to speak to my parole officer since CRN paperwork from around the time of the DUIs, so I am curious about that. Also, I would have assumed I would been taken straight to jail upon my arrest if they received report that I was on probation while running my info.

    My main concern is the hearing for my Public Drunkenness charge. Since my costs are not paid in full, I am assuming that this is a probation violation. I am assuming I will need to hire my lawyer, but the man is expensive, and I am trying to avoid that. Considering that it was 47 months between my last court date for the DUIs and this arrest, my record is otherwise clean, and that this is not an especially serious charge (probation aside), from a lawyer's standpoint I am wondering if I should expect any leniency. We have a very lenient magisterial judge, and a different cop could have very easily just let me continue my walk home.

  2. #2
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    Mar 2011
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    15

    Default Re: Pennsylvania Public Drunkenness While on Probation

    What state are you in? How long was your probation for? Probation is usually for 2 or 4 yrs.. What are your probation requirements aside from paying your fees? Is one of your requirements abstaining completely from mood altering chemicals and alcohol? Just curious for further information about your probation supervision level and requirements because that could play into how things pan out from this PD charge. Depending on your state, you can check online about your court criminal records and/or call a certain number that will reveal more information.

    Good luck!

  3. #3
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    Mar 2011
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    Default Re: Pennsylvania Public Drunkenness While on Probation

    Quote Quoting janellelk
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    What state are you in? How long was your probation for? Probation is usually for 2 or 4 yrs.. What are your probation requirements aside from paying your fees? Is one of your requirements abstaining completely from mood altering chemicals and alcohol? Just curious for further information about your probation supervision level and requirements because that could play into how things pan out from this PD charge. Depending on your state, you can check online about your court criminal records and/or call a certain number that will reveal more information.

    Good luck!
    The state is Pennsylvania. I don't know how long my probation was, as it has been so long since I had to worry about it - since each DUI was in a different county, I had two different sets of probation. When my lawer got involved, I believe both sets of probation were amalgamated (if that's possible) into one county's probation. If that isn't the case, all I know is that my license suspension for one DUI was 18 months (6 months for first offense + 1 year for underage) and one year for the other (after having turned 21). Alcohol abstinence was a condition for the probation. It was a standard list of obvious things not to do. No bars, drugs, alcohol, driving while suspended, etc. The probation seems to be low level, as I was only ever required to meet or talk to a probation officer once, and it was to sign papers that said I was willing to do the CRN/Highway Safety program since i was not ARD-eligible. In the other county I was never required to meet a probation officer.

    I have tried to look online for info - court records are available. As I said, nothing was listed about my probation under Penalties on the Court Summary sheet, whereas probation is listed on other peoples' summaries next to their other penalties.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    15

    Default Re: Pennsylvania Public Drunkenness While on Probation

    Okay, thanks for the information. Feel kind of silly since your state was obviously listed in your title! Sorry!

    Anyway, yup it is very possible for your two probation terms to be combined so your serve them side by side. Since in the other county you were never required to meet a separate PO, my guess is that your terms were merged.

    My main concern is not your unpaid fees (though this is not great either), but the fact that you were busted while intoxicated which is an automatic Probation Violation. How much time do you have over your head? I'm guessing 6 months? That's usually standard for a 2nd DUI. Depending on your state, county, and judge, they could execute your sentence for your PV. I am serious. Get an attorney.

    I'm not trying to be an alarmist about this situation but yeah, long story short a "friend" of mine once got a DWI and was on unsupervised probation for 2 yrs. Complied with all conditions except chemical abstinence, etc. My "friend" never took his probation too seriously and due to an unfortunate event was breathalyzed, blew a .02 (he was on foot, btw so it wasn't a driving thing) and received a PV in which my "friend" was forced to execute the 90 days that hung over his head. He did home confinement and was very unhappy. The End.

    My "friend" was from an extremely rigid county and state for DWIs, btw.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    3

    Default Re: Pennsylvania Public Drunkenness While on Probation

    Thank you for your insight. I will apologize now for the length of this post. By its end, I'm going to feel obligated to send you a check for your consultation.

    As for serving time, I believe it is 6 month. 2nd offense DUI is up to 6 months in one county (where I got the first DUI, served a weekend in jail), and 90 days in the other (where I got the second, served 72 hours in jail). However, like I said, my lawyer got me a deal such that I got charged with two 1st offense DUIs (I hadn't been convicted of the second yet). I believe he said that it would appear in my record as simply a 1st offense DUI (I figure probably more for background checks, as obviously a judge would have access to my whole record), but I wonder if a probation violation would thusly only be a violation of probation for 1st offense DUI? - Of course, I would tend to think that a probation violation would nullify this setup regardless.

    I am assuming then, that regardless of how long of a probationary period I was sentenced to, that I am still on probation until costs are paid in full? I am wondering why they didn't take me straight to county jail when I got arrested - wouldn't the officers have gotten report that I was on probation when they ran my info, and thus, shouldn't have I been taken to county to await bail or my court date? And, should this get knocked down to disorderly conduct, is that a probation violation? What sort of punishment would I be looking at in that case (if it is any different)?

    Like I said, the District Justice is a reasonable man. I live in an upright borough where there is little crime aside from young people partying. A family friend has a relative who has been arrested here for public drunkenness at least 10 times, and this Justice did not send him to jail until finally he got arrested, went to court, and hadn't paid several years' worth of fines. He only went to jail for the weekend. I am curious why he wasn't on, or wasn't sentenced to, probation by that point, and how such a consistently repetitive offender got such lenient punishment, but my point is that the Justice does not tend to be heavy-handed.

    I understand that I also have debts from past years, not to mention to probation violation, but there also extranneous circumstances which I hope to explain to the Justice face-to-face prior to the court date. I wonder how much value you, as a lawyer, would put into my leveling with the man. I've made this mess to deal with, I understand that, but there are many significant details which, I hope, will gain a little of his empathy:

    I live on a 10-acre horse/dog farm with my 55-year-old mother who works 50+ hours a week. On a daily basis I spend no less than 4 hours maintaining the land and tending the animals for my mother. She simply cannot support this lifestyle if I am not here. The house and land will dilapidate.
    My neighbor is on the police force and can corroborate that this is the sum of my daily life, as he watches me do it.

    I cook and clean for, and generally look after my recently-widowed, 84-year-old grandmother on a near-daily basis. Same deal for my grandmother on the other side whose Alzheimer's is coming to fruition.

    I babysit my two nieces and nephew several times a week

    I assist my quadriplegic neighbor (also on the school board, if that might help my case) 3 days a week with his rigorous physical therapy

    I go back to my high school and run after-school group lessons and practices with the jazz band and trumpet players fairly regularly, co-jointly with the band director, for fun/free

    All of these people will be left in the cold

    I am returning to community college in May for Chemical Engineering. I have paid $1800 in tuition already and have, in principal, been accepted to transfer after two years the University of California system, pending grades.

    My brother is a life-long criminal and addict, currently in jail. He obviously cannot replace me on the farm. My mother has funded all of his legal expenses. My sister is in the beginnings of what will be a nasty divorce. My mother will be funding her expenses. Given my college costs, payments on DUI fines and this upcoming fine, she would possibly have to lend me money for my lawyer as well. I am trying to avoid letting her know of any of this, as there is enough strife in her family life. I wonder if any or all of this would weigh on the Justice's consideration. The police know my family for these and other routine dysfunctions. They know me as the bright spot of the bunch who had a big slipup, and they know that I deal with gross dysfunction on the regular and that my transgressions are, if only minimally, reactive to that.

    I have been beating myself up about this, and everything I have said here is true. I have genuine contrition, people dependent to me, and a very real and profound chance to get back to school and get my life going. Besides these drinking offenses, I have only received a disorderly conduct, and that was over 5 years ago. As a lawyer, do you think any of this have any bearing? Is it worth the trip and the shamelessness to talk to the Justice prior to my court date? As you can see, I am pulling at straws to avoid getting a lawyer or my mother involved

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